Herald readers were fascinated by the All Blacks’ 33-19 defeat to England on Sunday morning.
We’ve gone through the comments and have selected and edited a sample below.
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How can we develop and evaluate players when we don’t play against the best, but only against weak opponents? Look what is happening to the Springboks as the play their rugby in Europe.
We think we are great, but the brutal reality is we overestimate our player ability until we are really tested, then we fail. The islands and Australia are not good for our game. We need European exposure at franchise level, not only a few tests a year. – James C
At least we have got the regular once-in-a-decade-or-so loss to England out of the way before the World Cup year. – Harry A
All Blacks captain needs to be Ardie Savea. Having a captain who is not the best on the field and who is barely holding his place in the side is not the usual stature of an All Blacks captain. – Russell H
Savea is missing in action and seems to be focused on his future playing career. – Faye S
Savea is ineffective under pressure. He didn’t influence the second half positively either. On the way down in terms of form. – Robyn D
Scott Robertson needs to remove his rose-speckled Canterbury glasses and appoint Savea as captain. Scott Barrett is the most uninspiring leader the ABs have had – doesn’t seem to know how to rally the troops or change tactics when required. – Mike I
The backline continues to look like they met for the first time in the pub the night before and Beauden Barrett is rapidly putting dents in what has been a great career. – Chris B
I look forward to these comments after an All Blacks game, so many wannabe coaches and experts commenting on the game.
Everything is great in hindsight: “I told you so, should have done this, should have done that, etc, etc.”
Damian McKenzie was king last week, now he’s been trashed by many. – Gordon B
The problem is the slow slide to mediocrity in the New Zealand culture. This whole “road cone, work-life balance, NCEA credits” rubbish. The under-18s were thrashed in Australia and some commentators here said let them be kids. No. Winning is everything. Results, not excuses. – Craig W
I see this as a very average All Blacks side; how many would make a world XV? We are being out-thought and out-coached. We seem to have an inability to take the high ball at times during the game.
When England had the ball, our backline was all over the place. They were not set up in a straight defensive line but with some 5m forward gaps. Our assistant coaches at the moment I would not put in charge of a Super Rugby side. From the 25th minute, we were out-scored 33 points to seven. – Stephen L
Not convinced by the decision with Codie Taylor’s yellow card. But why wasn’t Maro Itoje yellow carded for the same offence near the end of the game?
Aren’t there better referees who should have been in charge of this important game?
Where are the very good Welsh, Irish and South African referees of the past?
Have not been overly impressed by the Georgian, Italian and French referees this year. – Paul F
Stop with the traditional NZ ref bashing when we lose.
He had a good game.
The TMO was a bit over the top, but ultimately he was correct.
Taylor has apologised for the yellow card. – Peter W
Mate, the ref was the least of our problems. – Andrew L
There is something way off here. The refs have nothing to do with it.
It’s as if they’re being told how to play versus clinically playing what they see and on instinct which is a different pursuit.
They are no longer ruthless. – Andrew S
Robertson is clearly out of his depth.
What I find funny is we send other top coaches offshore to gain international experience. Obviously they are coaching lower level teams and will not win much. Our best example of this was Steve Hansen coaching Wales. He learned how to coach at that level. Then he came home and was our best coach. Graham Henry, too.
Joe Schmidt built Ireland into a pretty good team.
Jamie Joseph did okay in Japan.
And we can see Tony Brown in the Boks set up.
We really did miss a trick. – Peter W
Another capitulation by the All Blacks. Excellent rugby in 10-minute bursts, then 20-minutes of disorganised chaos.
Has anything improved over the past two years? Really?
Some of the younger players look great prospects. Fabian Holland has been the player of the season.
But several of our senior stars look either worn out or way past their best.
Our midfield selections. The constant changing.
Assistant coaches departing.
Something is not right. – Alfred T
The days when we would go to Twickenham and show the Poms how to play rugby are behind us, and who knows for how long.
This is the weakest All Blacks team for decades. If you were picking a world XV now, only Ardie Savea and Will Jordan could be considered, and then probably not picked.
The law of averages is catching up with us. It’s the relative size of your rugby-playing population that ultimately determines success. Ours has been shrinking, and others growing. – Terry C
Scott Barrett looks like a man with the worries of the world on his shoulders. That is not just impacting his captaincy but it is impacting on his playing. Shift the captaincy from him and allow him to work purely on his game. – Storm R
Robertson looks and sounds like he’s out of ideas.
The big question to me is what are the root causes of this pattern of getting whipped by other top sides? Is it primarily that we no longer have the quality of players coming through, is it simply the hard reality that internationally most of the top sides are all capable of beating each other on a particular day, or is it that the overall quality of our coaching team is severely lacking?
I suspect it may be a bit of all these factors. – Wayne K
Interesting to see the current England coach has a 62% win record – perhaps English fans have more rugby nous and don’t panic? – Brian H
Time’s up for Beauden Barrett; he’s had enough chances – his last game in the All Blacks jersey will be next week. George Ford completely outclassed him.
Comprehensive beating across the park. England looked like a class above.
Should’ve taken easy three points when they handed it to us.
We are not good enough – lucky we also don’t have to play France A team at home.
Razor needs help, our assistant coaches aren’t good enough.
Need better players, coaches and also upper management. – Laurence D
Possibly Beauden Barrett’s last test, unfortunately. He’s been there since 2014 so probably time to blood Josh Jacomb. We missed Caleb Clarke and Tupou Vai’i. Both a physical presence.
I’m no Fozzy (Ian Foster) fan, but surely he must be smugly sitting back sipping the cool glass of comeuppance. – JS W
Fozzy won’t be doing that. He’ll be feeling the pain of the loss. – Paul F
The truth is obvious here. What teams need is a coach. They don’t need one of the boys as coach. This is why this team is useless and don’t care. When they came off the field, they weren’t that bothered they had lost.
The team has the concentration span of an ant. They’re typical of this generation unable to concentrate on to the next thing. Like talking about Wales and how good we were in moments today. It’s a crying shame what Robertson has done to the All Blacks. – Richard G
It’s is time for a change in leadership. This is what is missing.
Scott Robertson is not an international coach. Clearly there is something wrong in the coaching team that is reflected in the playing team. Just look at the energy of the All Blacks XV with Jamie Joseph at the helm. I think this is not missed by NZ Rugby.
Test rugby is about control and building pressure. This is something that seems to be lost within this All Black group. A change in leadership to be made. Bring on Jamie Joseph. – Court S
Guess what: we lost a game of footy and we will lose again. It’s okay, the sun is shining – well, it is where I live. I’ve spent my whole life analysing test matches: what went wrong, who the coach is, so-and-so should be playing, what’s-his-name should be dropped – and it all makes no difference.
Now I just watch the games and if we win that’s great and if we lose that’s disappointing, but at the end of the day it’s just a game of footy. – Ray V
First up is the hubris of calling this a “Grand Slam tour” – it was a Four Nations tour. Talk about counting your chickens.
Second, the All Blacks’ frailty. That’s leadership. Scott Barrett is not up to the job. He doesn’t even earn his place.
Third, where are the standards? Why was Leroy Carter selected after a foot trip?
Finally, the anti-Auckland bias. Rieko Ioane is the ABs’ top try scorer and only 28. Inexplicable he wasn’t selected. And won’t we look stupid when Hoskins Sotutu is England No 8 when they win in 2027? – Charles J
The first 20 minutes post-halftime are our worst stats wise – what the hell is said at halftime then? How do they transform from then to now in such a horrible manner?
I thought there were some outstanding moments in the first half, but when you have Anton Lienert-Brown on your bench as an impact player … well that’s not a great selection. It fell apart when Cam Roigard left the room: Beauden Barrett missing touch twice, Codie Taylor thinking he’s back in club rugby with two cynical childlike yellow cards in two tests. – Matthew N
All Blacks no longer win the big games that matter. I must need therapy as I agreed with Stephen Jones’ comments on the game.
A loss in the UK carries a much greater impact than an All Blacks home win. The UK public don’t know when their teams are in New Zealand and don’t care. But in the UK, it is there for everyone to see.
They have recently seen All Blacks lose to Boks twice, England, Ireland and France. I won’t go on. This is what diminishes the All Blacks aura. And after-match comments from the All Blacks give no confidence problems can be addressed. – Stephen D
The English pack looked dominant in the loose in the second half, whereas our pack has never looked convincingly determined and full of steel all year. If you don’t dominate the rucks, you are well on the way to losing the game. – Simon A
Perhaps our complacency and arrogance needs some attention as well – the expectations of the ABs by New Zealanders are ridiculous. – Geoffrey S
No, it’s not. Its what had made them the world’s most successful professional sports team. If the country didn’t have those expectations the team would not have been as successful as they have been. – Adrian J
Pretty sad seeing our once great All Blacks team only having moments of individual brilliance. Definitely need South Africa back in Super Rugby, it’s hampering Southern Hemisphere rugby as a whole. – Andrew O
Ruben Love’s selection is a head scratcher. Why have him in the squad all year and yet he gets a run in a foreign position (wing)?
He was better off in the B side, but Robertson wanted him for a training aid. The fact that he was talked up during the French tour for his progress at training, etc. But he gets 10 minutes at the end of the Springboks smashing? Don’t know, but I sure do feel for the young fella. – Renato D
Couldn’t agree more that the All Blacks is not the place to develop players, but that equally applies to coaches. You have an entire coaching team with nothing except Super Rugby experience (except Jason Ryan). The structure of the coaching has Scott Hansen being the head coach and Razor bringing the messaging and ‘vibe’.
NZ Rugby cannot worry about Razor’s demands and his want to do things his way. They need to make some decisive and immediate decisions. The same way they forced Fozzy to change his coaching team. – Adrian J
A head coach needs to be ruthless, too. The model of our last two coaches in selecting a playing captain through to the next World Cup and building a team around that player is an outdated concept, particularly given those two players were not the best option in their respective positions. – Kelvin P
Good on the Poms, they play a better structured game than we do and love the drop kicks – skilful and smart! The worst part of losing to them is listening to the post-game interview. – Geoffrey K
We have the players if they are selected.
Biggest problem is our 10 – Beauden Barrett needs to go. He hasn’t been great for the past three or four years – good, but not great.
Razor’s main failure is his fixation with getting Richie Mo’unga back and not developing our future 10. We have the players: Josh Jacomb, Ruben Love and Rivez Reihana are our future, but they haven’t been nurtured and given game time. Ruben Love would have been twice as good as Beauden on Sunday, if given a chance.
Scott Hansen and Tamati Ellison need to go. – Tim F
I think the state of rugby in New Zealand reflects the state of the nation across the board. We’re no longer a great little country that punches beyond its weight. There are exceptional cases but rugby has fallen foul to the allure of ever-increasing wealth at the expense of a healthy home-based game just as the nation itself has buckled under the weight of poor management in pursuit of impossible dreams. – Bill H
Seems to be that the All Blacks cannot transition from the individualism of Super Rugby to the tight and well-drilled team necessary for international rugby. This defeat was reminiscent of the semifinal against England at the 2019 Rugby World Cup and ever since that match the All Blacks have had similar failures in composure, strategy and fundamental teamwork.
The All Blacks have now fallen to about the level of Argentina, and are showing little sign of improved cohesion and performance. – Jess E
I think we’re getting left behind; we need to let our players play in the top European leagues and allow them to be selected by the All Blacks. Playing against the best players from around the world regularly is what will improve our talent pool.
Super Rugby is no longer the top league, especially since we booted the South Africans. If we keep on this road, we’ll be battling to beat Italy in the next 10 years. – Bruno D
They’re playing with fear and they completely lose their structure and confidence when they fall behind. I think we’ll find over the coming weeks that there’s trouble behind the scenes somewhere there.
It will be interesting to see what David Kirk does. Yes, he’s a rugby man but he’s also a top-level executive and those guys know that if there’s something broken you have to bite the bullet and get it fixed quickly. – Jaime T
Lack of leadership from coaching to the players. Under this regime the All Blacks seem incapable of learning from their mistakes and developing as a team.
If this was a private business, changes would be coming thick and fast. I’ve never seen an All Blacks team so bereft of ideas on attack and lacking the basic skills. However, there is a core of some very good players (possibly just not enough compared to our last World Cup win) – but it seems that the mental hardness is failing them, especially in the second half. – Tania S
We will have no domestic competition of any status at all if we go down that route and in 5-10 years we’ll simply not have the playing depth or quality to compete.
We are also seeing the result of long term decline – NZ is no longer rugby, racing and beer. NZ excelled because the sport was the passion of the country. Today, it just isn’t.
We also don’t help ourselves with a coaching structure that pre-empts appointments two cycles out. – Gavin L
The All Blacks have not been able to win the big games that matter for some time. I don’t care about overall winning percentages, as this just camouflages huge problems in the team.
It is winning the games that matter that really shows how good the team is – not crude stats.
This was one of the most poor tactical games I have seen the All Blacks play. The All Blacks had this for the winning, but England’s captain had the skills to pull his team together and work out on the field how they could run over the All Blacks. Poor. – Stephen D