His comments came as Iran was accused of hacking the internal servers of Donald Trump’s US Presidential campaign and leaking materials to media - claims Iran has rejected.
University of Otago politics professor Robert Patman, told The Front Page we should be honest about the fact countries spy on each other.
“What is foreign interference? It really refers to a situation where an external state departs from the normal patterns of relations and attempts to impose its will, directly or indirectly, within a nation which is often seen as being weaker, in order to achieve some diplomatic, political, moral, or strategic objective. That in a nutshell is what foreign interference is, and I’m afraid it goes on quite regularly in international relations.”
He said authoritarian states that may have good relations with liberal democracies still engage in foreign interference because they lack “legitimate means” to influence opinion in other countries.
The 1985 sinking of the Rainbow Warrior by French authorities could be seen as an example of a country that shared our values interfering on our soil.
A 2023 report found that China, Russia and Iran were engaged in foreign interference in New Zealand. While New Zealand and China are close trading partners, Patman said the increased geopolitical rivalry between China and the United States over the South Pacific would make New Zealand a target for trying to influence opinion.
He did not think our location was the only reason we would be targeted.
“I think New Zealand’s international profile has significantly increased, in the last 10 years.
“The response of the Jacinda Ardern Government to the 2019 Christchurch terror atrocity, and also the way the Government effectively handled the Covid-19 pandemic, I think captured international attention, and certainly changed international perceptions to some degree of New Zealand.
“Increasingly, although we often see ourselves as a small country or a small state, I think others often see New Zealand as a minor power, a country which is relatively small or modest in size, but nevertheless quite influential internationally and often seen as a good international citizen. That in turn, the fact that New Zealand’s profile has grown, will also be, if you like, a source of attraction for ambitious outside powers.”
Patman said New Zealand needed to clearly send a signal it would not stand for interference, and that could be done by reversing our under-investment in defence.
“On average in the last two decades, we’ve spent about 1% of GDP on defence and intelligence. I think that needs to be boosted to about 1.7% and it needs to be done quite quickly. That would be a statement of intent that we’re not only a liberal, tolerant society, but we’re quite prepared to invest to ensure that it remains that way.”
Listen to the full episode for more on who is engaging in foreign interference, their potential reasons for it, and other methods that New Zealand could combat this.
The Front Page is a daily news podcast from the New Zealand Herald, available to listen to every weekday from 5am. The podcast is presented by Chelsea Daniels, an Auckland-based journalist with a background in world news and crime/justice reporting who joined NZME in 2016.
You can follow the podcast at iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
