Act’s David Seymour: Nicole McKee, Karen Chhour and him seen as ‘bad Māori’

Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee, Act Party leader David Seymour and Children's Minister Karen Chhour. The three Act MPs who whakapapa Māori. Photo montage / Photo NZME

David Seymour says the three Act ministers who whakapapa Māori - Children’s Minister Karen Chhour, Courts Minister Nicole McKee and himself - are perceived as “bad Māori” because they don’t subscribe to others’ views of what it means to be Māori.

In an interview reflecting on 12 months of a coalition Government with National and NZ First, Seymour said he is proud of changes Act has been instrumental in making which are now helping all Kiwis, including Māori.

Seymour (Ngāti Rēhia), Chhour (Ngāpuhi) and McKee (Ngāpuhi) are the three members of Act who whakapapa Māori.

Act leader David Seymour speaking at Waitangi Treaty House.

“Lower inflation means people have more money in their pockets and people will say that’s not an achievement for Māori, but I would disagree,” Seymour told the Herald.

“There are people who perceive because Karen Chhour, Nicole McKee and I are not focused on division we are against them.

“As ministers we are making a difference for people.

“But there’s a small group who make a lot of noise, who see us as being bad Māori because we do not subscribe to their world view of what it means to be Māori.

“There is a section of society that really dislike me because they have been told to. My challenge to them is to engage rather than hate and if you are prepared to examine arguments you may come to different conclusions.

“I am particularly worried that people are telling kids they are victims of colonisation or oppression and if that’s true, it happened a long time ago and we can’t do much about it.

“If you tell kids they are special but also victimised, they are going to concentrate on being a victim.”

Children's Minister Karen Chhour looked upset in Parliament earlier this year.

Seymour said the majority of Māori, like the rest of New Zealand, are trying their best in tough times, but playing a victim is not the right way to get ahead.

“While it’s true Māori are on the wrong side of many statistics, it’s not all Māori people and it’s not only Māori people,” Seymour said.

“One of the reasons we passed the needs not race circular was the need to get better at using statistics and data than going straight for ethnic identity and grouping people based on race.”

Seymour said he has always been true to his principles, but acknowledges Act is copping the blame for much of the anti-Māori rhetoric.

Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee.

“My policies haven’t changed from my maiden speech to Parliament as a 31-year-old Act MP. There’s a section in my speech where I laid out my race relations views and how we should really strive to remove discrimination in law, whether it’s gender, sexuality or race. I still believe that.

“There’s a group that believe I’m opposed to a Māori health authority. Yes I am, but I don’t see that as consistent of wanting the best opportunities for every New Zealander and not divide people by race.

“As for the dumbing down of the Māori language, as I said at Waitangi in 2023 in te reo Māori, I said one of the goals is to cherish the Māori language and culture. I’m on the record saying we should celebrate the Māori language. I think it is a beautiful language and it annoys me that people think I am opposed to it.”

NZ First leader Winston Peters and Act Leader David Seymour enter the marae grounds for the tangi of Kīngi Tūheitia. Photo / Mike Scott

Seymour next year will also take on the Deputy Prime Minister’s position from NZ First leader Winston Peters.

“I take that honour very seriously and with Winston and myself, there’s no problems with Māori succeeding in politics,” he said.

“Often the debates which appears to be between Māori and non-Māori are actually in Māoridom.

“We see it quite frequently in Parliament with the disagreements between Winston Peters and Shane Jones against Debbie Ngarewa-Packer and Rawiri Waititi.”

Seymour said Te Pāti Māori are at a political crossroad.

“My question to them is do they actually want to be in Government?” Seymour said.

“Because if they were and had that responsibility, they have to govern for everybody and what solutions do they have to offer. I think Act is doing more for Māori people because our policies are for all people.”

Seymour said he’s looking forward to shepherding through Parliament is Treaty Principles Bill and is hopeful his coalition partners will have a change of view once they see the discussion happening.

“I expect to see it in Parliament as soon as three weeks and I think it will be a positive for New Zealand and show we don’t need to be afraid of discussion,” Seymour said.

“For too long people have felt they are not allowed to have a view on the Treaty because they are not an expert or described as racist if they had a view.

“We are inviting all New Zealanders to have a view and even if all we achieve from this is making it legitimate to talk about the Treaty, maybe it will be the start of an ongoing discussion.

“Most campaigns for this type of change takes several gos - and I hope my coalition partners in spite of everything they have said, they will see the errors of their ways and decided to become supporters of the bill.”

Joseph Los’e is an award winning journalist and joined NZME in 2022 as kaupapa Māori editor. Los’e was a chief reporter, news director at the Sunday News newspaper covering crime, justice and sport. He was also editor of the NZ Truth and prior to joining NZME worked for urban Māori organisation Whānau Waipareira.