Former All Blacks captain Richie McCaw.
Rugby legend Richie McCaw opens up on the state of the All Blacks, building the brand while balancing a tension between team and individuals, and his frustrations with too much kicking and the wider impact of the TMO in the modern game.
Exactly 10 years ago - to this very day - Richie McCaw performed one of his final acts as All Blacks captain, hoisting aloft the Webb Ellis trophy. Millions watched as arguably the greatest All Black of all time led New Zealand to a second consecutive World Cup triumph.
In the corner of a Chicago hotel lobby today, McCaw’s audience is considerably smaller - five journalists, two of them from US outlets - but his influence on New Zealand rugby is no less diminished.
McCaw is New Zealand Rugby’s ultimate trump card on this American odyssey - a mission that goes far beyond the All Blacks’ quest to quell Ireland at Soldier Field on Sunday morning (NZT).
He is ostensibly here for a board meeting of New Zealand Rugby Commercial, the arm of the sport that’s been set up to help grow and expand the All Blacks brand, fan base and bank balance beyond traditional rugby borders.
But over the five days he’s in town, he will also be meeting existing, new and potential partners of NZ Rugby, and outlining the power and importance of the All Blacks brand, based on two critical factors - the history, legacy and mystique of the team, and its incredible test-winning record (76.67%).
Ten years on from the Twickenham triumph, McCaw certainly has a story to tell.
Richie McCaw - All Black number 1014, with 148 test caps - raises several tensions and issues that need to be balanced in the modern game, including preserving the All Blacks’ mystique while also lifting the veil enough to entice future fans.
Formula 1 has done it incredibly successfully through the Netflix series Drive to Survive.
Previous attempts at fly-on-the-wall All Black productions have been interesting enough, but nowhere near as insightful: the team has a winning formula and a team ethos that previous administrations have been keen to preserve.
“You want to keep that mystique,” says McCaw, talking more broadly. “That’s what people are interested in, but how do you show that without showing it?
“You want to give a glimpse... it’s a balance. You want to give people a little look, but they want more. When you’re trying to build a digital platform, you want to give more - that’s where the conflict comes.”
Another tension lies within the team environment itself. McCaw is the unabashed epitome of a team-first man. He would have no qualms - I suspect this is still the case today - to re-educate any player who got too big for their boots within the All Blacks environment.
McCaw discusses the differences between New Zealand rugby and other professional sports, such as English football and US franchises and in particular the tension that can exist between the promotion of team versus individuals.
“What’s unique about New Zealand rugby, and then the All Blacks at the top of it, is it’s a team, a game that everyone feels like they’ve got a stake in.
“No one owns it - even when you play for the All Blacks, you don’t own it, you’re just there to give to the team for what is a big legacy,” he says.
“So when you’re trying to show that - and you do that through personality - it’s a real balance between showing that it’s about the team, and everyone, no matter who you are, [is] there to just be one of the team.
“I think that’s what’s a little bit different to other sports. You might have a team and individuals that you’re quite happy to promote because that’s what fans want. It’s a real balance.”
McCaw was asked whether this inhibited the commercial potential for individuals.
His answer reflects, he says, a symptom of what’s happening in wider society.
“I get a sense it starts to become more about what I can get rather than what I can give.
“One of the things in the All Blacks was always about when you come in there, it’s what you give to the team and you’ll get rewards out of that, but it’s about putting ‘we’ in front of ‘me’.
“If you look at years gone by, people probably had that first thought. Whereas now it’s a little bit more about ‘Where I sit and what I can get out of that’.
“I’m not saying that’s wrong, it’s just different. In team dynamics, how do you make sure people are prepared to do what’s right for the team rather than what’s right for me?”
He believed it was wrong to say, “Oh, it’s changed, and that’s just the way it is”.
“The legacy of the All Blacks and the history... You know, when you come in and you understand that and you want to be a part of it, you can still drive that.
“As long as everyone buys into it and is aware of it... I think that’s where the success comes. That’s why rugby is unique - you need a group, especially on the field, of 15 people, but a wider group all doing their part.
“You can’t do it on your own. You can’t just have a group of superstars and say, ‘Oh, it’s going to function’.
“You need a team that has talent, but is actually able to work together, and when it gets tough, you have different people being able to step up.
“I think that’s what’s unique - that in some ways is our greatest strength, as you have talented people across, but they’re all about making sure the team’s successful.
“Good players come and go, and they just slot in because it’s about team success.”
He added: “There are more challenges around that.”
One of those challenges was in social media and other marketing, ensuring there were rules around the promotion of individuals versus the team.
“Players own their own image, but New Zealand Rugby own effectively the team, so how do you differentiate between what I do as Richie McCaw and what I do as Richie McCaw the All Black?”
Those were the types of issues that came up as part of collective contract discussions - “to work out what’s actually best for the game”.
“Rather than just going, what’s best for just the players? Or what’s just best for the union? It’s what’s best for the game. We effectively need both to function well to be commercially successful.”
To be fair, he said, he was lucky during his career that he was able to secure some opportunities in a personal capacity, where he did not need to be called “Richie McCaw, the All Black”.
“It wasn’t through promoting through social media, it was purely through what you were doing on the field. That’s where it’s changed, I think.”
During his career, any players who were seen to be impacting on team culture through any of their behaviour - promotional or otherwise - were “sorted out pretty quickly”.
As for any differences today, compared with when he was playing, he says wryly: “When it comes to things like social media, I hate doing it, but I do it...”
McCaw says kicking has become a “default” in the current modern game, where - unless there is a run of broken play - many players are opting to hoist the ball high for a 50-50 play. “It’s not just New Zealand, it’s everyone in the world.”
He remembered a similar tactic had emerged in 2009; the All Blacks had taken time to overcome it, but not before the Springboks had beaten them three times.
“It’ll swing around - you want good kicking to be a part of the game, but not the default.”
McCaw also thinks there are a couple of “easy” wins to hasten the pace of footy, making it a better spectacle.
He believes the timing for the setting of scrums can be sped up, without impacting safety, and he raises the issue of the television match official (TMO).
McCaw says rugby has also become somewhat stalled. Where once the TMO was focused on a try or no-try decision, they were now pinpointing every precise moment.
“We’re our own worst enemies when it comes to picking up mistakes.
“You don’t want to see howlers that cost people the game, but my view is that the game has some grey areas [with] human input - it’s going to be in an area of how a ref interprets how things happen.
“But we’re so critical of a ref who gets it wrong that everyone’s worried about getting it wrong.
“So we make sure we get 100% right, which makes the game quite stalled in my opinion.”
He acknowledged the challenge of finding an appropriate solution. “There’s a lot riding on results.”
On the eve of one of the All Blacks’ most critical tests of the year, McCaw talked about the importance and challenge of consistency.
McCaw said Scott Robertson’s All Blacks squad had a “heap of talent” across the board.
“The toughest thing in sport is the consistency factor - to be able to do it week in, week out.
“It’s probably one of the things that they’d be disappointed with, I know they are this year. You have a good performance, backing those performances up.
“That’s why it’s going to be a challenge over the next four weeks - four big tests, four weeks in a row.
“When they put it together, they are as good as any team probably we’ve seen. It’s just being able to do it for long periods in a game and then week after week.”
McCaw’s extensive influence that he once carried on the field now extends to his work off it.
As the Rugby Players Association representative on the board of NZ Rugby Commercial, McCaw is now sitting opposite Silver Lake, the private equity firm that the association locked horns with before it confirmed it was taking a stake in NZR in 2022.
McCaw has put that stand-off in the rear vision mirror and is now working with Silver Lake’s representatives and other board members for the greater good of rugby.
He hopes and expects NZR to tap into the expertise and experience of Silver Lake, while still ensuring rugby retains its uniqueness as a New Zealand sport.
“Some of their expertise and understanding of how other teams and other businesses all work and their networks, we’ve got to be able to tap into that.”
He says Silver Lake’s representatives - Simon Patterson and Stephen Evans - are “rugby people” who understand the ethos of the sport.
“Once everything got sorted... we’re here to see what’s best for New Zealand rugby and make sure everyone benefits from that.
“We all want to see New Zealand rugby flourishing, both from a financial point of view so we can keep the game the way it is, but also we want the game to be strong - the All Blacks competing well, people wanting to play... all that sort of stuff is important.
“That’s what everyone wants. There are going to be different ideas of how we get there. I guess that’s what it’s all about ...debating that and then coming up with the right plan.”
One of the US-based journalists asked McCaw about life as an All Black in New Zealand.
“We get left alone to live normal lives pretty much, by and large.”
One of the reasons was that “you don’t have to go too far in communities” to know an All Black - it might be a friend of a friend.
It wasn’t as though the All Blacks were “seen as gods that are different to everyone else”.
New Zealand rugby also thrived on an egalitarian principle.
“You have people from all walks of life [playing rugby], so you didn’t necessarily have to go to a certain school.
“You didn’t have to grow up in a certain area - you had people from all backgrounds and cultures that made the All Blacks.
“Because of that, everyone feels like [the team] is part of them.”
Shayne Currie travelled to Chicago with assistance from New Zealand Rugby.
Editor-at-Large Shayne Currie is one of New Zealand’s most experienced senior journalists and media leaders. He has held executive and senior editorial roles at NZME including Managing Editor, NZ Herald Editor and Herald on Sunday Editor and has a small shareholding in NZME.