Chris Hipkins speaks to Herald NOW's Ryan Bridge after Winston Peters ruled out working with him after the next election.
Video / Herald NOW
Winston Peters has ruled out working with Chris Hipkins, the Labour Party leader, after the election.
The New Zealand First leader made a similar call prior to the last election.
Peters also said Cook Islands and New Zealand officials are talking following a diplomatic row.
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters wants to make it very clear: he won’t be working with Labour after the election if the party is still led by Chris Hipkins.
Peters invited the Herald to his office last week as he neared the halfway point of this term.
During theinterview, Peters discussed his then unprecedented decision to rule out working with Labour prior to the 2023 election (previously, he had never explicitly ruled either major party in or out), saying back then that “no one gets to lie to me twice”.
During last week’s interview, Peters was initially unclear on the question of whether he would make the same call ahead of the 2026 election.
Then, after the interview concluded, Peters invited the Herald back to his office to make his position very clear.
“When I ruled out Hipkins in 2023, I ruled him out permanently,” Peters said (he actually ruled out Labour in November 2022, three months before Hipkins became leader).
In other words, barring a leadership change in Labour, it looks like the only conceivable grouping Peters would consider after the election will be something on the right.
Peters accused Labour of running a “borrow-and-hope” fiscal strategy during its second term, after NZ First was no longer part of the Government (NZ First was still part of the Government in 2020, when it passed the first post-Covid Budget, but the party was no longer in Parliament after that year’s election).
He said the current Labour Party’s “abandonment of their fundamental roots as a party” means “they’re in deep trouble”.
Hipkins has been critical of NZ First this term and suggested a post-election deal was unlikely, however he has not yet gone so far as to formally rule the party out.
Peters was scathing of his political opponents, even when discussing less overtly political topics, like foreign affairs.
He attacked his predecessor as Foreign Affairs Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, for her introversion, saying a member of the diplomatic corps confided in Peters that she was rarely seen.
“We’re beginning to wonder why we’re in New Zealand because nobody will talk to us,” the diplomat told Peters.
Peters, by contrast, talked up the “112 days” he had spent travelling and, not missing a beat, noted that he travels in recesses to avoid missing Parliament.
“I cannot believe you can take on a role where you’re meant to be the voice of the people and not show up to the institution where you’re meant to be the voice,” Peters said.
Peters sold himself short. A tally supplied by his office said he has actually spent 152 days travelling this term, visiting 44 countries.
He’s had 62 bilateral visits and 174 engagements with his counterparts (either Deputy Prime Minister or Foreign Minister) and visited every Pacific Island Forum country bar Kiribati. He’s had 60 one-on-ones with foreign heads of mission accredited to New Zealand (ambassadors and High Commissioners, in plain English).
Winston Peters' (left) decision to rule out a Chris Hipkins-led Government means a right-leaning bloc is his only likely political family after the election. Photo / Mark Mitchell
“I asked him [Wang], what was the purpose [of firing the missile]? To find out that the configuration in the Southern Hemisphere when you’re using such utilities is different than the Northern Hemisphere?” Peters said.
“I had to ask him three times,” Peters said, adding Wang did not give him a clear answer.
Peters believes history has proved his criticism correct.
“First of all, they were being treated as a developing country,” he said.
He said the success of Australia‘s trade with China without an FTA in the early 2010s (Australia‘s FTA was only agreed in 2014) proved he was right.
Peters said that New Zealand had eventually got value out of the FTA, but trade with China was now so developed exporters risk putting all their eggs in one basket.
“It took us a long time to get the value out of it ... but the mistake we made was we ended up with all our eggs in one basket. We had one product: milk powder; one company, Fonterra; one market, China.
“No sound economy runs like that.”
Foreign Minister Winston Peters in Beijing. Photo / New Zealand Embassy in Beijing
Peters on Gaza criticisms: ‘It’s defamation, it’s libel wrapped up in one’
One of the most pressing foreign affairs crises is the ongoing war in Gaza and the suffering of Palestinians there.
The conflict, which began after an attack by Hamas on Israel in October 2023, has led to large parts of Gaza being reduced to rubble and enormous civilian casualties. International media have reported plans for Israel to occupy large parts of the strip.
The Government recently joined an international call to allow the full resumption of aid to Gaza.
Peters said his position on the conflict has remained consistent.
“The terrorism was absolutely objectionable and it’s sequential terrorism – it’s happened over and over again, but the reality is we’ve got appalling circumstances of hunger, lack of food supply and, like others, we’ve run out of patience,” Peters said.
“This traducing someone’s reputation, it’s defamation, it’s libel all wrapped up in one and they think they can get away with it.”
Peters said he had been appropriately critical and made New Zealand’s position clear to other countries in the region, including Egypt, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates. He said those countries understood New Zealand’s position.
Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown (left) and Winston Peters in 2024. Photo / RNZ Pacific
The Cooks will celebrate 60 years of self-governance this year and it had been hoped a way forward would be outlined before that anniversary, which will be celebrated with a festival in July and August.
However, there does not appear to be any breakthrough.
Peters said officials were still talking, but there were no communications at the political level.
“That’s where things stay, I can’t say where they are at the moment, but that’s where they are,” he said.
New Zealand continued to be frustrated by the lack of consultation from the Cook Islands and the lack of information about the agreement with China. Much of this frustration has been directed at Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown.
The situation is now so strained that Peters has been setting out his position in writing to avoid being misconstrued.
“I’ve made my position clear and I made it clear in writing so that there couldn’t be any doubt,” he said.
Peters says he is no stranger to Cook Island politics, having “watched it with great caution and great clarity over the years, beginning with the Wine Box”.
The “Magnum” transaction, one of the controversies at the centre of the Wine Box Inquiry, was made to the Cook Islands.
Peters said his current position was based on the 2001 agreement between then Prime Ministers Terepai Maoate and Helen Clark, which introduced the consultation provisions at the heart of this dispute.
Peters said he knew Maoate “quite well” and had played rugby with him in the past.
“He was extraordinary for his age – very good rugby player,” Peters said.
Aukus
Peters did not have a significant update on talks about New Zealand potentially joining pillar 2.
He stressed New Zealand had not been invited to join the Aukus pillar 2, which involves the sharing of advanced military technology.
“We were looking at the prospect of pillar 2 – if we are invited,” Peters said.
“We haven’t been invited to join yet.”
Peters alleged critics of the pact were largely silent when the previous Labour Government was investigating potential involvement.
“Not a mutter, not a murmur, not a syllable, not a sound,” Peters said, quoting “the former MP for Mt Roskill” – Michael Wood? Phil Goff? No, Arthur Faulkner, who represented the electorate from 1957 to 1981.
