The views that propelled the National Party close to government a decade ago were "harsh and intolerant," philanthropist Dr Gareth Morgan told a small audience in Orewa today.

The man who gave those views - Dr Don Brash - sat in the audience to hear his famous 2004 speech described as being a "harsh and intolerant view that is intolerant of anyone who is different''.

"We still have a faction in our midst who see admitting culpability... is giving Maori the upper hand. This section of the community is clearly filled with fear."

As Treaty of Waitangi celebrations began in the North, the two Pakeha men attempted to solve the problems of the past 175 years in front of small audience of people largely in the same age range. A total of 19 people gathered to hear the pair speak -and almost the same number of media representatives.

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Dr Morgan would have the settlement of historical grievances as the beginning of a true treaty-based relationship with Maori, while National Party and Act Party leader Dr Brash, sees it as the end of obligations rooted in the past.

Dr Morgan's speech, given on the road to Waitangi, was the latest stop on a tour of venues at which he has attempted to articulate his views on the Treaty.

It was also a platform from which he could repeatedly jibe at Dr Brash, who he called a "hapless" man who "detested" the principles of the treaty.

He said Dr Brash's 2004 speech showed a "confusion (which) reflects a lack of inquiry" which was "sadly lacking for the leader of a major political party".

"The Brash world is one where the only acknowledgement of our identity is our citizenship. This is a tragically one-dimensional view. It is not a case where we are all New Zealanders to the exclusion of anything else.''

Dr Morgan said Maori were accepting a "pittance" of financial compensation in historical settlements signed at a time when the British were numerically vulnerable and compelled to make a deal. He said those who believed settlement of historical grievances ended the Treaty's involvement in New Zealand life were wrong.

Instead, he said it created a platform on which a modern Treaty-based relationship would be built.

For Dr Brash, it was a return to the audience to which he spoke 11 years ago of a "grievance" industry created around the Treaty of Waitangi.

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In stark contrast to Dr Morgan, he claimed it made no sense for the most advanced nation in the world at the time to cede so much to a "stone age people".

He described the core of Dr Morgan's views as "nonsense" and rejected his call for compulsory te reo in schools. Instead, he said children should learn more "useful languages" such as Mandarin or Spanish.

"Many of our problems today come from how the treaty has been reinterpreted."

Dr Brash said tino rangitiratanga did not mean what modern "revisionists" had interpreted it to be. He said the original signatories would not have signed a contradictory document.

Former MP Georgina Beyer introduced Dr Morgan and Dr Brash, speaking of the Treaty as being "vexed". She said Dr Brash's speech of 11 years ago "still resonated" in New Zealand.

"It is refreshing to some we have a non-Maori New Zealander who has some idea of what the future of our treaty relationship is going to be. This is what we need to talk about - what is the future going to be?"