Prime Minister Chris Hipkins in his 9th floor beehive office, Parliament, Wellington. 27 January, 2023. for WEH. NZ Herald photograph by Mark Mitchell
“Just watch me,” new Prime Minister Chris Hipkins says when asked how he would defy the fate of others who had become Prime Minister mid-term and gone on to lose the next election.
It is Hipkins’ first day in his office on the ninth floor of the Beehive, and he has only been in there for 20 minutes when the Weekend Herald arrives.
A metal briefcase sits on the desk, presumably with all the top-secret PM documents in it. The case itself is not new – he suspects it is a hand-me-down from former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
All other signs of Ardern have vanished.
Hipkins already seems relaxed. His tie is off, he jokes that his bald press secretary might be mistaken for Christopher Luxon if he is in the camera shot, and he starts the interview with an arm casually flung along the back of the sofa.
Hipkins’ staff have placed a brass desk plaque his family gave him to go alongside the usual nameplate. It says “Fixer of Everything” on it – a nod to his Mr Fix-It label as a minister under Ardern.
He now has a lot more to fix than he ever anticipated, courtesy of Ardern’s final request of him – to take over her job at the top.
There are others who have taken over the leadership part-way through a term and gone on to lose the next election: Jenny Shipley and Bill English the most recent of them.
Hipkins says he has every intention of bucking that trend.
The next couple of weeks will give more idea of how he will do that: A reshuffle of his ministerial line-up is first. He says it will be “balanced” in terms of keeping experience and bringing in fresh faces. Then there is the policy reset about which he still has no specifics to announce, but he does make it clear that the Three Waters reforms are set for a bit more than just another attempt at a sales job.
Asked which part of the government programmes he saw as the biggest electoral liability, he said the sheer scale of reform alone was a problem.
“I have heard the message from New Zealanders is just around the volume of things that we are trying to do all at once. They’re not necessarily opposed to any particular programme, it’s just that there’s so much of it.” He said businesses had told him they supported some of what the Government was doing, but they just couldn’t keep up with it all.
“I think that’s a very fair reflection and I think the Government needs to take that on board.”
Asked if Three Waters had become emblematic of that, he said it did have “a lot of baggage” with it and a reset was needed.
“We acknowledge there is baggage with that. The issues around co-governance I think have been poorly understood. That’s created some anxiety as well.
“We are going to look closely at the Three Waters programme. There’s no question there has to be change. I don’t think we can just sit back and say, “this is not our problem, this is a council problem.” I don’t think that would be responsible. But we also need to bring people along with us and what we are we doing.
“So we will need to reset our work around Three Waters. I don’t want to speculate on what that will look like, but I acknowledge there is anxiety out there and we need to make sure we are communicating what we are doing and why we are doing it.”
He agreed there was general unanimity that something had to be done to reform water. “So let’s use that as the starting point and see how we can build from there.”
He said the savings from putting water services into four entities was significant. “That said, I think let’s continue to look closely at issues around local democracy and the interface with local democracy. I think we do need to look at issues around co-governance to make sure we’re not just creating a whole lot of heat because of misunderstanding. We’ll take some time to do that.”
He said the case for change remained strong, given the scale of investment needed and its impact on rates.
“I think Government does need to take that seriously. I don’t think we can just wash our hands of it and say it’s a problem for local government to deal with.”
It is Hipkins’ second full day as Prime Minister and he is back in Wellington to speak to MPs about that reshuffle.
On his first day, he went to Auckland and met with business people – both large and small. It was a charm offensive on both Aucklanders and business – an attempt to show he was there and willing to listen and it came with the implicit concession that Labour had perhaps let the ball drop on both.
Auckland will be critical for re-election. “As Prime Minister, you govern for the whole country. I absolutely recognise though that Auckland is our biggest city. It is an economic powerhouse for New Zealand, it is the home of a lot of our commerce. So the Government needs to be there, we need to be visible and present in Auckland. I will be there regularly and of course within my ministerial line-up there will be some very visible senior ministers in Auckland, including Deputy PM [Carmel Sepuloni].”
Hipkins conceded there was resentment in Auckland in the wake of the 2021 Covid-19 lockdowns. “There was more pressure in Auckland because of Covid-19 than anywhere else in the country. Now we’ve got an opportunity to get Auckland pumping again. I think there’s an opportunity for us to boost confidence in Auckland. I’ll be playing my part in making sure that happens.”
The business people he met with made positive noises about his approach after that meeting, saying he seemed willing to listen and even act on their concerns.
Hipkins did not believe he had raised their expectations beyond his willingness to deliver on them: “I had very frank conversations with them. I don’t think that they think we are going to change our values or change who we are as a Government. But I think often some of the tension that’s existed with business has been based on miscommunication, misunderstanding and simply us not sitting down and talking with them enough. I think we can resolve that with more openness and more regular communication.”
Asked what valid concerns they raised, he said there was no question the labour market was tight and business was struggling to attract and retain staff.
Keeping Labour’s support base happy
His immediate contact with business may have raised a few eyebrows among Labour’s rank and file. Asked if core Labour supporters should be ready to swallow a few dead rats in his policy reset for the sake of trying to win an election, Hipkins says compromises and trade-off were part of being in government.
“I think Labour Party members are actually quite realistic about that.”
He will meet with union representatives soon and local Labour members as he travels around the country, but said he had no plans to stage a big event by way of introducing himself.
“I want to get on with it. I’m more interested in getting on with the job than with sort of symbolic gestures.”
Hipkins is stepping in after one of the most high-profile and – until recently – popular Prime Ministers in New Zealand. He started with fighting words, saying he had no plans to lose the next election. But other Prime Ministers who have stepped in mid-term have struggled to deliver the win.
Hipkins is hoping to avoid that jinx. He says he will not read too much into the polls in the nearish future, whether they deliver good or bad news.
“I think New Zealanders will take a little bit of time to get to know me and get to know what kind of Government I’m going to lead. I’ve always found New Zealanders to have an open mind when it comes to voting. I’m not reading too much into any of the signals at this very early point. I think it will take probably a couple of months before New Zealanders form a view on this Government.”
His reset will be crucial when it comes to that. He says that will not be done for electoral success, but for what is best for the country. Of course, he would say that: But electoral success is a precondition for him to continue to dispense that programme.
“The economic situation we’re in now is very different to where we were at a year ago. So the Government, regardless of its electoral fortunes, as a responsible Government should be looking at what its priorities are.”
He points out his obvious advantage over his opposition, saying the Government is stable and experienced “and knows what it is to steer the country through tough times”.
Asked about Luxon’s dismissal of the handover as simply a different leader but the same team and “same story” he gives an arch “I think that’s more a reflection of his own personal experiences leading the National Party.”
Hipkins has two children and says he is yet to work out how he will end up juggling family and his work life. “I’ve always been quite conscientious about allocating family time, making sure that’s ring-fenced and that I don’t budge on that. I hope to continue to be able to do that.”
Different Prime Ministers involve their families in their public lives to different degrees, and Hipkins has already said he will keep his well out of the public eye. In one of his first press conferences he said he had separated from his wife about a year ago, but they remained close.
He said having children had “softened me a bit as a person”.
He’s already started working on the Guy You’d Like to Have a Beer With image, making self-deprecating (and accurate) jokes about his fashion sense and pushing his Cossie Club credentials.
He admits he goes to his local Cossie Club less frequently as a minister. When he’s there he has a pint of Speights. His most-watched movie of all time is Grease. “When I was a kid we had a videotape of Grease and must have watched it so many times that the tape broke. I’m a bit of a sentimentalist, I quite like Forrest Gump. We watched Love Actually before Christmas. It’s good.
“When it comes to watching movies or reading books, I tend to watch fairly populist, bland stuff.”
He likes to garden when time permits. “I like to grow things you can eat. I grow a mean crop of rhubarb. Strawberries, they’re actually quite hard work.” He usually grows a “grazing garden” with things such as snow peas and cherry tomatoes, but he left it too late this summer.
He gives Helen Clark as his favourite former PM “because she’ll text me if I don’t”. She had already texted him about his new role.
He now has to get used to the police protection that goes with him everywhere. “I’ve given them the indication there may be the odd cycle journey they might have to start planning for.”
One of the issues peeving voters is the reduction in speed limits on some roads. Hipkins has not had a speeding ticket since he got into Parliament. However, he has been told that if he decides to drive himself somewhere, the Diplomatic Protection Squad (DPS) officers accompanying him have the power to issue him with a speeding ticket.
Coke Zero is back on the menu now Ardern has gone – she thought she had converted him to kombucha. There is now a can in plain sight sitting on his desk. It’s as clear a sign as any that Ardern has left the building and Hipkins is the boss now.
That would be an alternative to the normal 'maximum' sentence regime.