Green MP Tamatha Paul fires back at Labour, says expectations of party’s law and order policies were ‘already low’

Green MP Tamatha Paul is not backing down after her comments criticising the police sparked outrage, including from potential future coalition partner Labour.

She has now fired back at the party – saying her expectations of Labour’s law and order policies was “already low”.

Paul has come under fire for her recent comments about the police, including saying there were reports of police throwing homeless people’s belongings in bins, that police beat patrols made some people feel less safe, and that the majority of people in prison were there for non-violent offences.

The comments have triggered a trading of amped-up political rhetoric between parties, even between Labour and the Greens who tend to be quite close.

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said Paul’s comments were “quite outrageous and insane” and that she was in “la la land”.

Labour leader and former Police Minister Chris Hipkins said Paul’s comments were “ill-informed, were unwise, in fact were stupid”.

“I don’t think that responsible Members of Parliament should be undermining police in that way.”

But Paul remains defiant. Speaking on a recent episode of the BHN podcast, the Green MP said she felt frustrated reading Hipkins’ comments.

She had thought about responding at the time but let it slide because people would not want to see the Greens and Labour “scrapping with each other”.

Host Pat Brittenden asked Paul how it felt “having to be the grown-ups in the room all the time?”.

“The thing with law and order, and Labour, is my expectations were already low,” she said, referencing Labour’s Ram Raid Bill which she viewed as punishing children.

“It’s not like my expectations of Labour’s criminal justice policies were high in the first place so I wasn’t even surprised when I read Chippy’s [Chris Hipkins] comments.”

Green MP for Wellington Central Tamatha Paul. Photo / Georgina Campbell

Paul criticised current Police Minister Mark Mitchell, saying he “never has anything intelligent to say”.

In response to a question from Brittenden about how she would differ from Mitchell if she were Police Minister, Paul said: “Well, I would be far more intelligent than Mark Mitchell”.

“I mean the guy doesn’t even know what systemic bias is. All these questions being wasted in the House and he just says the same thing over and over again.”

She told the podcast she would reduce the amount of power and discretion police held if she were in charge.

“I think it is that space that lies within that discretion that is where you are getting all the bad outcomes because you are leaving it to regular people to make judgments about other human beings which I don’t think they are capable of making – that is why you see an over-representation with the police with some people, and others not.”

Mitchell responded to the comments in a post on his Facebook page. He said in the 18 months he had been in the ministerial role, Labour and the Greens had made “deeply personal attacks” on him.

“I am proud of the work that this coalition Government is doing on public safety. I have personally dedicated most of my adult life to service to my country and public safety.

“New Zealanders should be very concerned by the prospect of a Labour-Green government that wants to defund and remove the discretion of our police force, at the same time as letting violent criminals out of prison.”

He rejected Paul’s assertions that people felt less safe with police out on the beat.

“In fact there is overwhelming evidence that the opposite is true. It is complete nonsense to claim that all our beat police do is persecute homeless people - in fact the complete opposite is true, our frontline police officers are always looking for ways to support and help rough sleepers.”

Hipkins, Labour’s leader, was asked about Paul’s comments on the podcast by reporters on Wednesday afternoon.

He said Labour and the Greens were opposition parties and “we are going to be competing for votes right up until the election”.

Billboards could ‘backfire’, Paul says

Paul also responded to the popping-up of billboards funded by the Sensible Sentencing Trust to attack attack co-leader Chloe Swarbrick and herself.

The billboards, which were visible from Whitmore Street in the capital, included a picture of Paul that was used in her successful Wellington Central electorate campaign in 2023.

Billboards with a picture of Green MP Tamatha Paul, seemingly paid for by the Sensible Sentencing Trust, have appeared in Wellington. Photo / Adam Pearse

One displays her picture next to the words “Defund the Police” - likely a reference to Paul’s other recent comments speculating whether some police functions could be taken over by other entities.

Paul told the podcast she thought the Sensible Sentencing Trust were “a bunch of idiots”.

“I think it just also shows they have no understanding of Wellington City, either. If they think putting this up in Wellington City is going to be some kind of a hit-job, we’ll see how that goes next year.

“I don’t think they understand how these kinds of things backfire. But for me, I was like ‘mean, free promo, shot’.”

In an earlier statement, trust spokesperson Louise Parsons said the trust believed both central cities faced “significant challenges in relation to public safety” and argued Green Party policy wouldn’t address concerns.

“The objective of this campaign is to highlight what and who the Green Party stand for. Because it certainly is not victims.”

Julia Gabel is a Wellington-based political reporter. She joined the Herald in 2020 and has most recently focused on data journalism.