NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Herald NOW
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
  • Herald NOW
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Politics
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Herald NOW
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / World

Trump is facing a big moment of truth. And no amount of spin and lies can change it

By Greg Sargent comment
Washington Post·
22 Jan, 2018 09:28 PM5 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

Demonstrators rally in support of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) outside the Capitol. Photo / AP

Demonstrators rally in support of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) outside the Capitol. Photo / AP

Once you get past all the finger-pointing, spin and lies, there is no escaping a basic fact about the US government shutdown.

President Donald Trump and Republicans are soon going to have to make a decision: Do they view the "Dreamers" as deserving of a place in American life, or do they view the Dreamers as an out-group who at best should be consigned to a marginal, shadowy, upended existence, and at worst should be targeted by the nation's deportation machinery?

The New York Times reports a remarkable tidbit of information that provides a window into this question:

"When President Trump mused last year about protecting immigrants brought to the United States illegally as children, calling them 'these incredible kids,' aides implored him privately to stop talking about them so sympathetically."

Why would Trump's aides implore him not to talk about the Dreamers as sympathetic figures? The easy answer is that it risked undercutting him politically when he ended their protections. But the deeper answer, I think, tells us a lot more about what's really driving this whole standoff.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

The parties' basic calculations run as follows.

Republicans want to force Democrats to pass a spending bill without any protections for the Dreamers, because Republicans would have more leverage to extract more hardline immigration concessions if the vote on the Dreamers does happen later, decoupled from the government funding dispute.

Democrats don't want to forgo this leverage - without the government funding at stake, there is less pressure on Republicans to even hold such a vote.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

But at the end of the day, Trump and Republicans will either have to protect the Dreamers, or decide not to. And this will settle the question of how they fundamentally view these people.

As it is, Trump's vacillation on the Dreamers is a major cause of the shutdown. Trump was first warm to, but later rejected, the original bipartisan deal that would have protected the Dreamers, because his hardline advisers talked him into believing he wasn't getting enough immigration concessions.

Then Chuck Schumer signalled openness to giving Trump his border wall, and they were close to another compromise, but Stephen Miller and John Kelly intervened. GOP Congressional leaders also helped scuttle it.

There are two ways to interpret this. Either Trump's hardline advisers and/or GOP leaders don't actually want any deal that protects the Dreamers, or they do want one eventually and hope to maximise leverage to extract more of what they want later.

Discover more

World

Analysis: Shutdown battle just put off

22 Jan 08:42 PM
World

Analysis: Both parties can point the finger

22 Jan 09:03 PM
Opinion

Michael Cox: He's not presidential he's a dealer

23 Jan 04:00 PM
World

Nurse Germany's most prolific serial killer since WWII

22 Jan 10:21 PM

But either way, the bottom line is that the right wing is vetoing the current bipartisan compromise effort. And Trump cannot decide what price would make protecting the Dreamers worth his while, which is why he keeps getting manipulated into backing off from compromises.

At the core of this is a deeper vacillation - about who the Dreamers really are. Trump and GOP leaders have in the past repeatedly cast the Dreamers as morally blameless for their plight and have vowed to enable them to continue making positive contributions to American life. House Speaker Paul Ryan did just this in a year-old dramatic exchange with a dreamer mother.

Republicans may have won the government shutdown battle, but there is still no winning strategy for the party on immigration. https://t.co/6GfLSwIORu

— Axios (@axios) January 22, 2018

Yet Trump and Republicans have pivoted to falsifying the real cause of the shutdown by bashing Democrats for closing down the government to protect "illegal immigrants".

This is a dramatic swing towards portraying Dreamers as nothing more than lawbreakers - toward lumping in the Dreamers with the broader undocumented population, which Trump has tarred with all kinds of lies about immigrants committing crime, harming low-skilled US workers and perpetrating terrorism.

Is this the real GOP view? As Brian Beutler points out, the legislative history here does betray sustained GOP treatment of the Dreamers in precisely these terms. Or, as David Bier puts it, House Republicans cannot "accept Dreamers as Americans" and view them only as "criminals on parole".

Indeed, to return to the point above, Trump's advisers are actively discouraging him from rhetorically treating them as sympathetic figures. All this is perhaps about maximising leverage later: If the Dreamers are just another species of criminal alien, then Democrats had better give up a lot - cuts to legal immigration and changes to family-based migration - to gain their protection.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

But it remains unresolved whether Trump and Republicans are willing to legalise the Dreamers at all - whether they actually do or do not view them in sufficiently sympathetic terms. If they can't get to Yes - if no reasonable set of concessions is enough - it will be because treating the Dreamers as fundamentally different from other undocumented immigrants is a Rubicon they cannot cross.

Are the Dreamers nothing more than unwanted immigrants from "shithole countries"? We don't know how Trump and Republicans will resolve this question. But it can't be postponed forever.

Save

    Share this article

Latest from World

Premium
Analysis

Analysis: Trump buys himself time, and opens up new options

19 Jun 11:45 PM
live
World

Trump confirms timeline for US strike on Iran decision

19 Jun 11:09 PM
World

Manga prophecy sparks flight cancellations to Japan amid quake fears

19 Jun 10:45 PM

Jono and Ben brew up a tea-fuelled adventure in Sri Lanka

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from World

Premium
Analysis: Trump buys himself time, and opens up new options

Analysis: Trump buys himself time, and opens up new options

19 Jun 11:45 PM

New York Times analysis: It frees Trump from operating on a schedule driven by Netanyahu.

Trump confirms timeline for US strike on Iran decision
live

Trump confirms timeline for US strike on Iran decision

19 Jun 11:09 PM
Manga prophecy sparks flight cancellations to Japan amid quake fears

Manga prophecy sparks flight cancellations to Japan amid quake fears

19 Jun 10:45 PM
US bases that could attack Iran — and become targets

US bases that could attack Iran — and become targets

19 Jun 10:43 PM
Help for those helping hardest-hit
sponsored

Help for those helping hardest-hit

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP