KEY POINTS:
A 3-year-old-girl was fighting for her life after a 15-year-old learner driver crashed into a group of children.
It is understood the youth's car came around a tight corner and mounted the kerb on the other side of the road.
This forum debate has now closed. Here is a selection of your views on the topic.
Michelle
This is crazy. As a young person I feel the driving age should be raised to 16. I got mine at 15, but I was mature, I had no crashes, did not speed. I would drive with only mum in the car until I had my restricted. I only drove to work, not to school. I never breached my license conditions. I don't agree with comments saying that adults should be held accountable. My mum used to take my sisters keys from her as she would drink and drive at 15 with no adult supervision in her car. Mum tried everything to get my sister to behave. My sister used to steal my mothers keys, or beat my mum until she gave her keys back. Are you going to hold my mum accountable for my sister drunkely killing some innocent? Fat lot CYF did for her, nobody wanted to know. Parents get so much of the blame, have you ever tried controlling a reckless 17 year old? What can you dO? If people cannot be prosecuted for murder or attempted murder (that's what drinking and driving is) or like an adult then they shouldn't be allowed to drive. I have friends with turbo WRXs who crash them and race them while high on drugs (I hate drugs), they arent insured, they would never get insurance for them. They get loans to buy them. Young people under 25 should not be allowed anything over 1500cc (there are plenty of cars to buy in that size) and not allowed turbos or superchargers. If they want to race then become a racecar driver. I cant understand why kids can drive at 15, but cant smoke until they are 18. I fail to see why they can have sex before they can vote or smoke too!
C Daniels
I think the driving age should be increased, if not to 18 at least 16. I have three teenage boys and our rules are that the boys are not allowed to learn to drive until they are 16, at 15 boys are still far too immature. On top of that our boys also have to go through a school term without getting into any trouble whatsoever, even as minor as a lunchtime detention, before they can even sit their learners license. We have explained to them they have to prove to us that they can abide by school rules before even starting to learn to drive. If they cannot abide by school rules then how can we ever trust they will abide by the road rules? After that they are on a zero tolerance policy, if they do one thing wrong they are taken off the roads. Perhaps the handing out of learners licenses should be looked at, an interview as well as a test.
Karen B
I was 15 years old when I got my licence nearly 30 years ago. I have never had an accident (touch wood). I certainly think that receiving defensive driving tuition would be very beneficial for not just learner drivers but all drivers. This is another terrible accident. This boy did not go out yesterday afternoon thinking that today he would seriously injure a group of children, however if he had more defensive driving training this may never have happen.
Brent Anderson
The learning to drive age in my view is not a concern. I have a son learning to drive at present and all in all he is very responsible and aware, he will attend the defensive driving course also which I am sure most of us havent. Of course there will be some learner drivers who are not, but this will not change if the age was raised to 17. The restrictions on young drivers are more than adequate and the process very thorough and restrictive. Remember when most of us learned to drive we sat the test at 15 and we were off with all our mates packed in, no restrictions. The media reporting always highlights/ sensationises any incident involving young drivers raising an out cry but it is a fact under 25 yr olds are represented in statistics for many different reasons than older age groups and can no doubt hold arguments for many hours. I think a knee jerk reaction to the driving age is misguided, would the same have been reported in this way if the driver had been a 30 yr old female?
Demaris Powley
After reading the article on the young 15 year old who crashed his car and seriously injured a child. it makes me wonder why we allow these young kids on the road. They are not old enough to go to jail for causing these injuries or deaths and ruin their lives from the carnage they cause. Imagine caring the responsibility for the death of someone before you even start your life. The age needs to be raised or serious vehicle and licensing restrictions need to be put into place so that these young people don't purchase high performance vehicles. Our young children are dying or causing death through their irresponsible actions.
Gavin
Matt, the difference in the CC rating does make a hell of a difference. It means the change of acceleration/G forces. It takes a lot less time to achieve the speed that can make the difference in a short space, say like a shorter road. Yes, you can have a "normal" car and reach a ridiculous speed of 140kph. The cars that are available to us now, makes it a lot more dangerous in the amount of time to have a "wee joyride" up the street. Ie: your so called GTR 2600 twin-turbo, 300hp, would make 0-100kph in 5secs. It can be all it takes to have a lead foot at any age..and carelessness..and reach the dangerous speed and have more chance of maiming someone in a residential/rural or highway.
Jesse
Mujahid, I fail to see your argument. I dont think what you are saying has any impact on what is being discussed here, as for holding motorist accountable who else is held accountable? The little girl and her family? The grandmother for walking on the footpath with her grandchildren? Or maybe we should blame the footpath? Regardless of his age, he needs to be held accountable for his actions, just like a person over the age of 18 who commits a crime is held accountable. As for the age, what is that really going to do? Yes so a 15 year old doesnt have the maturity of a person twice his age but then again, it doesnt mean that the older person is any more mature then the 15 year old. Instead of the age restriction, maybe the ability to gain a licence should maybe bit a bit harder to obtain, regardless of what age you are there are always going to be accident no matter what age! Dont always blame the young ones.
Dave Cotton
Come on New Zealand - time to grow up - you can no longer allow these tragic events to continue. A child of 15 cannot be allowed to drive (supervised or unsupervised) on todays busy streets. They just don't have the skills or the judgement to deal with events on the road. I see kids driving 4X4s on their way to school. This is ridiculous. Most developed countries have a learner driving age of 17/18 - why does NZ have to be different? You can just imagine these kids playing on their games machines - you know some kind of racing game and then getting straight in their cars! They cant vote until they are 18 or legally drink so why are they let loose on the streets with a ton of metal! This country has to lose its obsession with the car. You hear it every Friday night, boy racers flying around the streets, screeching their tyres -probably struggling to stay on the road. What kind of image does this portray to visitors? Its not just the kids either, you see it everyday being cut up by people and the lack of manners- and all the huge exhausts. Whats that about! For the sake of future generations, do something now. Change the age when people can learn to drive. Just think of all the cars which would be taken off the road helping to free up the traffic. Unfortunately I cant see anything being done by the government too scared of a backlash by the kids when they get to 18. Have some backbone!
Roya Hendesi
I think the driving age should definitely be increased. At the age of 15 part of the brain for proper judgement has not fully developed and a lot of accidents happen as a result. The first question I asked the AA instructor (when I was sitting for my New Zealand drivers license) was why do they issue license to 15 year olds? He replied because they start work early and need to be independant. Well, this is simply not a good reason for putting other people's lives in danger! Boy racers starting that age are everywhere, hurting themselves and others in numerous accidents. The line needs to be drawn somewhere.
Vani Elkhishin
The driving as well as the drinking ages should both be increased as it is a well researched fact that younger teenagers have not reached the mental development milestones to make mature or sensible decisions at that age bracket. Not to mention the influence of PlayStation etc which cater to speed based games. Teenagers tend to view themselves as invincible and tend to test their abilities at every opportunity. It usually takes a crisis to bring them back to reality. An ideal age for learners license would be 16 - 17 and full license 18- 20.
Jakes Jacobson
The NZ Government must take responsibility for this latest car accident tragedy in Torbay. If they (and their agencies) were serious in trying to make NZ roads safer, they should stop messing around and increase the driving age to 18 as a matter of urgency. It is 18 in most other countries (see www.2pass.co.uk/ages3.htm). What makes us think our young people are better physically developed or mentally matured earlier than young people in most other countries? Kindly do not hide behind the rural community any longer. Most other countries also have rural communities, yet do not put deadly weapons, like cars, in the hands of children.
Annoyed
Ok there are a lot of arguments floating around about young drivers etc. But in all fairness it doesnt matter what age you are. There are accidents happening all over the place involving cars and not all the drivers are 15. They may have the maturity to handle driving on the open road but that is not the problem. The problem is the ease at gaining a licence. I am in my late 20s and it still amazes me how easy it is to gain a License. I took my 15 year old cousin to get her license and within in 20 mins she was given a license and I know for sure that she is not responsible enough to drive a car, whether it be a powerful, modified car or not. What needs to happen is to have tougher restrictions on obtaining licences. A little girl is hurt and a young man is slowly having his life turn upside down. My brother was in a car accident and was seriously hurt but the driver of the other car was not a young driver but rather a middle-aged driver who was in a rush to get home so that he could watch a game on TV. Now that is irresponsibility at the most, so we cant sit back and blame the younger drivers. It will happen to any age group. Look at the way we are handing out licences and adjust those rules before we start blaming age groups.
Samantha
I think 15 is way to young to be behind the wheel. 15 year olds are not mature enough to handle a car and the situations a driver can be faced with. I know my son wont be getting his learners licence at 15 and after reading this article it just brings the whole situation to reality, My heart goes out to the little girls family and I hope she will be ok.
Nick Fantham
Age limit should be raised, and the power of cars permitted to under 20s should also be restricted. There is no need for a learner driver to drive a car of CC rating that exceeds 1600 at a max. Learners on motorcycles are restricted to power, why not in cars?
Oh, thats right, we wait until hundreds have been killed before logic and common sense bare themselves. Silly me.
Angela
I live in Torbay and am appalled at the amount of young drivers who speed and drive recklessly within my small community. You can hear them speeding down Deep Creek Road at night in their zooped up vehicles. We have heard so many crashes and screeching breaks in the dead of night. I feel young drivers should not be allowed these high powered vehicles. They should also as a requirement to drive, have "Full Insurances" for liability and responsibility of been a car owner. I also feel that the parents for these young drivers/teenagers need to be responsible and at times held accountable for their children. Any one under 18 still needs parental supervision and the generation of parents for the teenagers today just let them do what-ever they want and go where-ever they want. I am pretty sure most parents have no idea what their teenagers are up to. I feel young drivers feel they are invincible and that they have no regard for anyone but themselves. Something has to be done about this now. Not next year or the year after, but now. I have small children whom attend Torbay Primary and I will never ever let them walk alone home in fear of careless drivers and speeders on Deep Creek Road.
I also understand my comments are not applicable to all young drivers and I commend the ones that do drive responsibly. Unfortunately a few bad seeds can give everyone the same stigma. But as dults/government entities/authoritative bodies, we need to enforce regulations to keep everybody safe.
Jonathan
Yes I do believe that the driving age should be increased because New Zealand currently has the second highest vehicle ownership rate in the world and as a Labour supporter I believe one way to curb the global warming epidemic is to decrease the amount of teenagers driving cars.
Chris
Regardless of the age this kid was allegedly driving as he was on his learner licence without an adult present in the car. He could have taken the car and driven it without a licence, it does not mean an automatic increase to the driving age. However, I personally think the Learner licence age should be increased to 16, with a minimum 18 month learners period with an advanced drivers course compulsory and tougher driving exam to obtain your restricted licence. This would mean a person would be at least 17 and a half before they can get behind the wheel by themself, which is about the right age for people starting Uni or heading into the work force. I agree with a few of the other peoples views that 18 is far to late to start learning to drive as it will just result in the same stupidness by the minority and there would have to be a lot of reliance on parents (until the age of 20) to get to work and you would find a lot more people breaking the law just to get from a to b.
Judith Hutton
Cars are faster, faster the better, the handling is far more superior, the roads are better (than in the 80s)...We have got the need for speed and all the fuel to go fast. What do we instil in our kids mindsets. Through the power of visual stimulation.Our kids are stuck in XBOX/Playstation Mode. They are Invincible! Kids are losing the logic of realism and really can we blame them, we allow it to happen. Think about it. Life is fast, Fast Cars, Fast Foods, Fast Music. Cities are metropololising just to save travel time, we call ourselves metrosexuals, our desire to feel alive comes from adrenalins rushes or stimulants. Damn. I know I love it! But, What do we demonstrate in our daily lives to our kids? Running late, always being in a hurry, Must to this, have to do that, must have this, have to have that and Stress? Shouldnt we as the adults and responsible citizens slow down and demonstrate rational / logical behaviour. Hard call! Lifes too busy! Increase the driving age...or be more responsible as adults? Or develop some changes that suit TODAY! Life in the year 2007. Introduce the UK Motor Vehicle / Registration and insurance regulations (cc rating pertaining to age and experience.) Open X-factor/x-treme driving tracks and schools - where young teenagers and adults alike can challenge their skills and learn new skills. Feel the need for speed, push the boundaries, scare the S... out of yourself but have a great time doing it.In a controlled and safe environment. (paddock thrashing, drag strips, drift tracks, circuit tracks etc.) Sure theres a cost but hey "ACC for Road accidents and rehabiliation costs more"...with the biggest cost (Human life) - do we and are we really killing our kids?
Colin Phillips
15 years old is way too young for unaccountable youth to be in control of a lethal weapon. At this age they are not considered sufficiently responsible to drink, smoke, vote, own a firearm or be fully accountable for their actions under law. Why should driving be any different?
M Swan
A perfect example of why 15 year olds are too young to drive. How many more tragic accidents have to be caused by teenagers on our roads before the driving age is raised?
Dennis
Raise driving age to 18 yrs. Compulsary insurance. Reduced cc rating up to the age of 25 yrs.
Annonymous
Personally, I think the driving age should be put up to 18. If 15+ year olds are ignoring the restrictions of a learner licence. Then the age should go up. Why should others lose their life or life of a family member because these "kids" decide that the rules don't apply to them. It was only 10 year ago when they first started school. Most 15 year olds are still at school. A lot are not mature enough and can not think about "actions lead to consequences". I live in Torbay myself and have 3 children. It could have been any one of our children on that street at that time. My son has 2 years before he could apply for a drivers licience and I wont be encouraging him until I feel he is mature enough to handle a car.
Sean Wilson
It absolutely amazes me that children are allowed to drive cars here in New Zealand. The boy in question in the article is only 15 years old. He is a child. On top of that, he was driving a Toyota Celica. How is a 15 year old supposed to be in control of such a car. The drivers in their 20s, 30s and 40s cant even control them here! Of course the driving age should be raised, at least to 17. That gives two more years for the child to mature and should help them cope when behind the wheel. In a country where the vast majority of drivers are ignorant towards other drivers and are ignorant of road rules, something needs to be done to bring the death and accident tolls down. Increase the minimum age to 17, teach people how to drive for a lifetime, not just for the duration of the driving test, and impose proper sentences for the offenders.
Pauline Greenall
15 year old children dont really have the brain function yet to be allowed to be in charge of a motor vehicel. I think that the age for learner drivers should be put up to 18 years to give them the time to have more experience in life as well the know how to control their brains, eyes, hands and feet co-ordination.
Jane
15 is far too young to be driving. Our young people are dying on the roads and this is a tragedy. If they were dying of a disease more would be done but people seem to accept road deaths as just an accident. We are losing young people who are full of potential. It is the commonest cause of death of young people. We have immunised against meningitis which is much rarer so we should do more to prevent road deaths and accidents. At 15 the brain is not fully developed, teenagers need to be exploring and taking risks but driving is a potentially lethal risk. I have a young daughter and she will not be driving at that young age but I imagine it will be easier for me to enforce this if the law is changed!
Thomas
Just because a few abuse the system is no reason to change the driving age for all. Get tough on the ones abusing the system: long or permanent driving bans for offenders and serious fines and prison terms for the ones who drive while banned.
Daniel Sloan
Learner in a Celica? Why not a Corolla, Yaris or something that isnt the model on which a dynasty of World Rally championship challengers were based? Keep learners out of sports cars.
Mary Waugh
Yes most definitely to at least 17. The cc rating of a vehicle should also be restricted or the vehicle governed. The structured driving licence is not working. It should be compulsory to have a minimum of 4 professional driving lessons during that learners period and it is at the discretion of the professional instructor as to the readiness of the individual to sit the licence. During the learning period the learnee should also have to undertake defensive driving lessons which include practical demonstrations. showing them a video does not have the same effect as practicing - it needs to be compulsory. Perhaps a visit to A&E or a night out with the tow companies to see the damage a vehicle inflicts when it is driven inappropriately. Raising the age for those living in the country or without public transport is a pain (we live 20km away from the nearest public transport and have 2 sons 24 and 26) but if it is going to save lives and heartache then so be it. Why is it necessary for a 15-year-old to be out driving after school? What kind of control have his parents got over him - obviously none. This kid and that is all he is, has got to live with this for the rest of his life. The article says he will be dealt with in the youth court because of his age but he and his parents thought he was adult enough to get behind the wheel of a killing machine. NZders have to remember it is a privilege not a right to drive a vehicle.NZ needs to look at the public transport system, make it affordable, frequent and available. If it works in Japan, Korea, Australia, UK why not here?
Debbie
The age should be raised because 15yr old children are too irresponsible to deal with the consequences of driving. It should be raised back to 18 like it was years ago.
Debby Tweed
The age should be increased to 17 as it has been proven by a medical team in the USA that brain maturation only occurs later than the teen years, specifically in the male species. Teens are not able to make the correct decisions when put into a difficult situation as brain maturation has not occurred!
Peter
Blame it on the general conception of a Kiwis owning a car and having a drivers licence as a right of passage. Surely there are much better things to be obsessed over.
Sheldon Heights
No matter what any of us say spare a thought for the parents of these kids.All you parents out there will know what I mean.Seeing you child laying there helpless is one of the most gut wrenching things to go through.
Grant Prujean-Smith
I believe the driving age in NZ, at 15 is too low, it is lower than other Western nations and lower than our closest neighbour Australia, who also limit the type of vehicle a learner can drive in. Its like most things, NZ is behind everyone else. Its a medically established fact that the frontal lobes of teenagers are not developed sufficiently to provide depth to their visual perception of the evolving environment around them while driving. They focus too much attention on what is directly in front of the vehicle only. One day we may even ban cell phones while driving and make vehicle insurance compulsory..... also like Australia. But no we might impinge someones rights so that is not likely in the PC capital of the world, NZ.
Chris
I have a feeling if this youth had the required full licence driver in the car he would not have taken the corner too fast. Changing the laws would not have any affect on someone that was breaking the law anyway.
Debbie
Yes the age should be raised, but it should also be compulsory to have insurance. At least that way the innocent victims can get some compensation and the careless drivers will get increased premiums until they learn to drive responsibly.
Amanda W
I dont think changing the driving age will make a difference. What needs to be changed is the requirements to get a licence, especially in the practical aspects of handling a vehicle. Just a like a pilot has to do so many flying hours before he can go solo, a driver should have to do a set number of hours with a qualified instructor and also complete and pass a defensive driving course before receiving a full licence.
Hayden Nash
To Rural Dweller: Even if the driving age was raised to 17 minimum, there would be restrictions in there on farm kids driving around. Australia has allowed for it in their statutes, no reason why NZ cant.
We need to stop pussyfooting around this issue. Ineffective Minister Duynhoven needs to relinquish this portfolio as he has proved to be as useful as a dead duck around Land Transport.
Caron
I think the driving age should be put up to 17 on learners license. Also a defensive driving course should be mandatory before they even get behind the wheel on public roads. 17 year olds have that bit more maturity than 15/16 yr olds.
Rina
I definitely think the driving age should be increased because there are far too many kids on the roads today that may have a learners license or even a restricted license but many of them don't have the skills when it comes to driving much less the skills required for defensive driving. I have seen kids driving cars that are way too powerful and big for them to handle. I also think that parents need to be made more responsible for the cars that their kids are driving as many of them have the so-called boy racer cars bought for them and then spend a fortune doing them up. I value my childs life more than her having a flash car to drive, to keep up with everyone else and the trend that's in for the moment. I would much rather shower her with love than 4 wheels that could kill her and others for not having the essential skills to drive but the intelligence to pass a test for a learners license. These kids have to realise that cars are not crash proof and parents need to make sure they are driving within the conditions of their license.
Michelle Lowe
I think the age should be increased. I learnt to drive at the age of 17. I now have 3 years no claims and experience and looking back i can see how young and vulnerable I was at 17 let alone if I started even earlier. When you start to drive it is exciting and new and you take risks that you shouldnt. At the age of just 15 I dont believe that the average person has enough knowledge or experience to make that judgement no matter what their level of intelligence. I dont think that people realise just how dangerous a 15 year old can be behind the wheel of a car and it shouldnt take such a devastating accident as this recent one for it to be questioned. Dont get me wrong everyone makes mistakes and even after 30+ years experience you can still make a mistake, however maybe if there was a little better judgement and experience in the car the terrible accident would never have happened.
Tom McKellar
It is the drivers, and their parents, which are the problem. The driver in this case lives in Torbay, and was known for racing around local streets. Apparently he took this corner at speed every day, so it was only time before this situation occurred. I actually live 1km away and have these same people racing up and down the street. The Police can not respond as they are under staffed. Because of this I do not let my 2 year old out in the front garden. We all now seem to live in fear because of the minority. If these young people offend, the Police need the staff and powers to lock them up. No ifs, no buts, how many people need to be injured before something is done. The issue in my street will probably result in a resident or myself being arrested following an altercation, as we as locals are not going to let these idiots rule the roads.
Stephanie
15 year olds should definitely be able to drive. I got my drivers licence when I was 15, but the car that I first drove was a Fiat Bambina, a 500cc car that crawled everywhere. This is what 15 year olds should learn in, not Celicas that are far too powerful for a learner drive.
Shirley Chesmar
I think they should. At 12 they know right from wrong and a lot of them are out there doing all sorts and know they cant be punished for it. Their offending is treated as a joke by them and their friends, at the end of the day its the hard working taxpayers paying for their shop lifting and any damage that they do. The parents arent even made responsible either which also is a joke. Some of them let their kids run riot and they just ignore it, then when these kids end up in court when they are older they just say the "system let them down, time this country toughened up. Take note Helen Clark.
Laurelle
As a Mother of 2 young drivers, I wouldnt like to see the driving age raised. I dont however think that 15yr olds should be allowed to buy cars. What happened to borrowing mum and dads car and having to hand it back in good condition or suffer the consequences of you actions? Hell it was good enough for us. We were too scared to get a dent on the car let alone drive it too fast and waste petrol. Parents should set stronger boundaries for their children and stop them doing things before they are mature enough to handle it. Stand up parents and take control.
Natasha
I think that one incident should not automatically raise a review of the law. It is sad that the media feel a need to sensationalise this. What should be taken into account when reviewing the age is the facts - are the brains of such young people really able to handle the situation - there is certainly research out there that suggests they cant. How do we teach them to act responsibly and not allow peer pressure to influence their actions. There are a lot of teenagers who do take the situation seriously and a lot of adults who dont. The teenager who flouted the law and ended up in this situation should certainly feel a consequence for their action, perhaps a 2 or 3 year delay in getting the licence? A balanced review, without emotion, may be required but our country as a whole has shown thus far it is incapable of doing this.
Karen
I think the requirements for getting a licence should be made much harder and parents need to be more strict with their kids. I am 34 and am a very responsible driver. But when I got at my licence at 15 I couldnt drive very well at all! During the test, among the many things I dont think I did right, I pulled into a car park with only a few centimetres of space between the vehicle next to me. The tester laughed and asked me to do it again. He passed me. I did however have very good parents and the knowledge to know that I needed far more practice and little trips before I felt confident.
Rachel
Yes I think that 15 is way to young to drive!! They are not grown up enough these days and dont think about the outcome of speeding! Driving age should be 19 - 20 I think. My heart goes out to the wee children hit in Torbay and hope they are all going to be ok.
Sanjlin Prasad
Driving age should be increased to 18 because of so many reckless under age drivers. These are the ones who love to race at the middle of night,crashing and then killing some one.
Kathy
I think that children should not be able to start sitting their drivers license until they are 17 years old. Before this age they are just kids and although there will be some that are responsible divers, I think there are more that are not. They are on the roads before and after school hooning around, where other children are walking home from school, crossing the road and delivering papers, it is simply too much of a risk. They should not be able to dive to school and home. So I therefore think 17 is a more appropriate age.
Heather Euinton
I strongly believe that the driving age should be raised to help prevent tragedies like the one yesterday.
Paul
Both the licensing & driver education systems in this country are complete rubbish. Driving discipline is extremely poor. Driver courtesy is non-existent. "Mature" road users are setting a disgraceful example to our younger road users. An overwhelming number of people, young and old alike, obviously think driving a big, loud, fast car is cool. We need to give young people more things to feel cool about.
Trilby
You cant legislate for good sense. You can try to teach it, by instruction and by example, but for the most part you have to leave people to learn it for themselv
