On the Tiles: Gerry Brownlee and Golriz Ghahraman debate New Zealand's foreign policy in wake of Ukraine crisis

Much of the debate focuses on what role the United Nations has in solving this crisis. Photo / AP

The Foreign Affairs spokespeople for National and the Greens have clashed over New Zealand's response to the invasion of Ukraine and the role of the United Nations in the first ever debate hosted by the Herald's politics podcast.

On this episode of On the Tiles, host Thomas Coughlan moderates a discussion between National's Gerry Brownlee, a former Foreign Affairs minister now serving as the party's spokesman, and the Green Party's Golriz Ghahraman, a former international lawyer and foreign affairs spokesman.

New Zealand is currently restricted in what it can do to impose sanctions on Russia due to a lack of an autonomous sanctions regime, with the country relying on the United Nations.

The Government has announced plans for a law change as early as next week to allow them to better target Russian individuals, something that National has been calling for.

Green MP and Foreign Affairs spokesperson Golriz Ghahraman. Photo / Doug Sherring

However, the Greens want the focus to be on refugees, calling for the Government to let more refugees in.

Much of the focus in the debate turned to the role the United Nations has. Brownlee, who served as a minister when New Zealand was a member of the Security Council, is doubtful of relying on the international body to solve these issues.

"I don't know that that many problems have been resolved through the UN in the last couple of decades. So some kind of reform is definitely necessary, but the chances of getting that in the current environment is pretty slim."

National MP, former Minister and Foreign Affairs spokesperson Gerry Brownlee. Photo / Supplied

He is strongly in favour of sanctions to put pressure on Russia. In response, Ghahraman said that strict economic sanctions have not always worked in the past, noting Saddam Hussein and that he was still able to commit war crimes while facing them - leaving the sanctions to harm the general population instead.

"None of that was solved as he was able to insulate himself from sanctions and it was the Iraqis who missed out."

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