British American Tobacco NZ general manager Andy Hrstic said the company's share was "around 60 per cent".
"So if we take 13 people a day, dying of tobacco consumption," Swarbrick responded, "you then are taking responsibility for about seven of those?"
"Ahh, I am not sure I can understand what you are trying to... We are clear smoking has serious health risks," Hrstic said.
"Nobody should smoke cigarettes. If you smoke, you should stop. And if you can't stop, solutions such as vaping are creating significant success... That is the focus of our business."
In 2019, British American Tobacco had more than 1 billion cigarettes for sale in New Zealand at a retail value of over $1.6b.
Swarbrick asked the same questions of Imperial Brands Australasia, with market manager Brad Topp responding they had "about 27 per cent" market share.
When asked if they took responsibility for that share of the daily deaths, Topp stated the health risks of smoking were "well-known" and they supported "evidence-based regulation for tobacco products".
Swarbrick also asked if they prioritised tobacco reduction over profits and what their future was in a "smokefree" country.
"You remain focused on combustible tobacco products even though you know they kill people?" Swarbrick asked.
"We are focused in New Zealand at the moment on combustible cigarettes, yes," responded Topp, adding that internationally they sold e-cigarettes.
Imperial Brands Australasia in 2019 had close to 300 million cigarettes for sale in New Zealand in 2019, at a retail value of over $430m.
Representatives of both companies stated they supported the ambition of the bill, but were concerned about aspects including relying on reducing nicotine in cigarettes to encourage people to quit.
They said there was no evidence it would do so, and it was the smoking that caused the health problems not the nicotine.
They also said there was a rising illicit market in the country and smokers would turn to that once legal avenues had been reduced.
Topp referred to a KPMG report in 2019 that found about 11.5 per cent of cigarettes smoked here came from the illicit market.
Customs has estimated this year it could now fall within about "10 to 20 per cent".
He also said limiting the number of retailers was concerning, particularly for dairies where tobacco sales made up about "40 to 60 per cent of revenue".
"Many may not survive," he said.
The bill proposed the director general of health would set a "single current maximum or a series of reducing maximum number" of approved retailers in an area.
According to a Cabinet paper on the corresponding Smokefree Aotearoa Action Plan, modellers had used a 95 per cent reduction of the estimated 8000 retailers, but noted the final number would need to account for differences in rural and urban areas.
Earlier, public health expert Professor Nick Wilson said he was concerned about the influence of the tobacco industry, which "lives life in an utter distortion and misrepresentation of facts".
"We need to treat them with extreme scepticism."
Wilson said his own studies had concluded the illicit market was as low as 5 per cent. They also showed most illegal cigarettes came from a few countries and were sold in certain areas, meaning it was possible to better control.
"The industry has hyped up that issue and produced figures we cannot validate."
He supported the bill, which he saw as "extremely important" - "maybe one of the most important a government has passed in decades".
"This really is at the forefront of tobacco control. If this is passed, many [around the world] will look at the success of New Zealand."
Wilson said he had been concerned about the impacts of tobacco on health for more than 40 years working in public health.
He said trials had shown reducing nicotine in cigarettes increased the quit rate.
However, he said it was important the Government strengthened wording around de-nicotinisation including that it should come in after six months and level of nicotine be limited to 0.4mg.
Without specifying that the Government will be caught up in "endless legal battles", he said.
The smokefree goal:
• By 2025 less than 5 per cent of New Zealanders will be smokers.
• This target was established in March 2011 in response to the recommendations of a landmark Parliamentary inquiry by the Māori Affairs select committee.
• Smoking rates are decreasing, but there are still significant inequities for Māori, Pacific peoples and those living in socio-economically deprived areas.
• The current smoking rate of New Zealand adults is 13.4 per cent in 2019/2020, which has decreased from 16.6 per cent in 2014/15 15 and from 18.2 per cent in 2011/12.
• The current Māori smoking rate is 31.4 per cent in 2019/20, which has decreased from 38.1 per cent in 2015/15, and 40.2 per cent in 2011/12.
• Māori women have New Zealand's highest smoking rates, at 32 per cent. Māori men also have a disproportionately higher current smoking rate of 25 per cent.
• About 4500 to 5000 people die due to smoking tobacco products every year in New Zealand – about 12 to 13 deaths.
• Since that landmark Māori Affairs Committee Inquiry in 2010, more than 50,000 New Zealanders have died of smoking-related causes.
