That almost-forgotten recording has emerged as a trove of information for the Chasing Ghosts: The Puppeteer podcast, providing unexpected insight into Burgess and her 23-year catfishing career.
In 2011, NZ Herald reporter David Fisher had exposed Burgess as the woman behind dozens of false social media profiles, made with photos stolen from young women across the country. Burgess had then used those profiles to lure teenage boys and young men into relationships.
In 2013, Burgess went to jail for two years for charges related to her online activity. Sometime after getting out in late 2015, she resumed her catfishing, taking photos from more women, including Gold Coast-based New Zealander Crystal Jenner.
Fisher has now re-investigated the case as a true crime podcast after being contacted by Jenner, who had struggled to get assistance from police and Facebook to stop Burgess.
That work led to meeting Osborne – and the 2019 interview which Burgess consented to being provided to Fisher.
“In 2019, I had a bit of time on my hands and like many others, I decided I wanted to start a podcast,” Osborne explained in the last episode of Chasing Ghosts.
“And my interest was really in New Zealand’s justice system and what is and isn’t working and how the individuals who experience the justice system could help to inform steps that could help to make it better.”
The first email she received was from Burgess, who likely was a follower of Osborne due to the latter’s appearance on The Block NZ in 2016.
Osborne went on to interview Burgess for several hours, but the podcast never went ahead as she got a job offer that took her away from focusing on the series.
She told Fisher she had not thought of the interview for years, but felt compelled to contact him after listening to the episodes.
“I did reach out to Natalia and let her know that I’d like to talk to you and share this side of her story, which I don’t think was captured in the first few episodes, which are some of her more vulnerable moments and part of who, why she is the way she is.”
Segments of the interview are heard for the first time in the last episode of Chasing Ghosts: The Puppeteer, alongside an interview Burgess gave this month with Fisher that focused on her catfishing activity.
Speaking to Osborne, Burgess is more open about her feelings about what she did, expressing remorse several times for what she has done – despite evidence showing she was engaging in catfishing around the time of the interview.
“I would say I’m sorry and I’m sorry for hurting so many people. It wasn’t till the Facebook stuff came out that I realised how many people I had actually hurt.”
She said she had not thought of the impact her actions would have on the people whose faces she had taken.
“I never thought about that from any of that angle because I was just like, you know, I’m lonely. I just want some friends.”
Burgess said people should be careful on the internet as not everyone is genuine, and said that other catfishers shouldn’t follow in her footsteps.
“Just stop doing it. ’Cause you don’t realise how many people you’re hurting. You think you’re not hurting anybody because you’re not using real details or real names or anything like that [but] you are because that photo you could circulate and like one of your friends could bump into that person.”
Later in the interview, Burgess would go on to say New Zealand is too small to catfish people and it’s more likely you can get caught – while it would be easier to get away with it in America.
Evidence from throughout the podcast shows Burgess shifted her focus to targeting men and women in Australia rather than New Zealand after getting out of jail.
Osborne told the podcast she wasn’t aware of the full extent of Burgess’ crimes when interviewing her, and having heard from more of her victims, she has a conflicted view of Burgess.
“Something I’m wrestling with in my own mind is like, I have so much empathy and compassion for Natalia because, she’s been through so much and the mental health struggles that she has, and in some ways I was letting that cloud my judgment of her to the point where I was always almost making excuses for her behaviour.
“Until she’s held accountable and she takes account of herself, I don’t think she’s going to stop because she’s very self-aware, she’s intelligent.”
Chasing Ghosts: The Puppeteer is a five-episode true crime investigation. Follow Chasing Ghosts on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. All episodes are available now.
David Fisher is based in Northland and has worked as a journalist for more than 30 years, winning multiple journalism awards including being twice named Reporter of the Year and being selected as one of a small number of Wolfson Press Fellows to Wolfson College, Cambridge. He joined the Herald in 2004.
The podcast is produced by Ethan Sills, winner of Best Podcast Producer at the Radio and Podcast Awards 2024.
