Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales thinks social media is making us mistrust each other - The Little Things

Doomscrolling may be changing how we see humanity. Photo / Joshua Hoehne

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales says social media algorithms are rewarding the loudest, angriest voices online, and believes many of us are mistaking doomscrolling for being informed.

Wales joins Francesca Rudkin and Louise Ayrey on the latest episode of The Little Things podcast to discuss trust, online behaviour and why modern digital life can leave people feeling anxious, angry and disconnected.

While social media is often blamed for worsening public discourse, Wales says the internet itself isn’t inherently toxic. Instead, he believes the real problem lies in the systems amplifying outrage, and uses platforms such as X as an example.

“You very quickly get the idea, wow, the general public is full of absolutely crazy, screaming maniacs,” Wales says.

“And what you don’t realise, or it’s easy to forget, is the reason you’re seeing those particular people is that the algorithm is promoting them.”

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales says social media amplifies outrage because it drives engagement. Photo / Perry Seymour-Marsh

Wales says controversial and inflammatory content is rewarded because it drives engagement.

“The algorithms are actually feeding the trolls, are encouraging that behaviour,” he says.

One example Wales uses is the difference between a “cranky, maybe slightly racist uncle” stereotype and a “sweet grandma” who dotes on the kids.

“You put them both on social media, and you know, crazy uncle starts saying outrageous things. People respond ... And the algorithm goes ‘ooh’.

“Next thing you know, Uncle Ralph’s got 700 followers. He’s not a major influencer in the world, but 700 followers is not nothing.

“Meanwhile, Grandma comes on and says, ‘it was so great seeing you last Sunday’. No engagement, no promotion by the algorithm.”

The result, Wales says, is that online spaces can distort our perception of society and leave us believing extreme views are more common than they are.

Despite that, he still describes himself as a “pathological optimist” and says people have more control over their digital lives than they realise.

One practical change Wales made himself is removing social media apps from his phone.

“If some kind of social media is making you unhappy, then just stop doing it,” he says.

“The hardest part sometimes is to stop and go, you know what, I’ve always thought I was enjoying this … no, I’m addicted to it. But not because I love it and think it’s great, it’s because it’s toxic.”

Wales also challenges the idea that endlessly consuming online content means people are staying informed.

“We should evaluate what it really means to be informed,” he says.

“It may not be tracking the news obsessively all the time.”

Listen to the full episode for more on:

• Why Jimmy Wales believes trust in institutions is collapsing
• The danger of assuming bad faith in political conversations
• Why he thinks most people sit somewhere in the middle politically

JimmyWales: The Seven Rules of Trust is a special post-Auckland Writers Festival event on Monday, May 25.

The Little Things is available on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. The series is hosted by broadcaster Francesca Rudkin and health researcher Louise Ayrey. New episodes are available every second Saturday.