NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Herald NOW
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
  • Herald NOW
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Politics
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Herald NOW
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / World

Passions run high in US politics' proxy war

By Dan Balz
Washington Post·
5 Oct, 2016 04:00 PM6 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

Mike Pence (left) and Tim Kaine were all smiles after the debate but during it were told that 'the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other'. Pictures / AP

Mike Pence (left) and Tim Kaine were all smiles after the debate but during it were told that 'the people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other'. Pictures / AP

Opinion
Kaine and Pence hold little back as they try to hurt Trump and Clinton in the battle of the running mates.

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton weren't on the stage at the vice-presidential debate yesterday, but it didn't really matter. They were still front and centre.

Stripped of the overpowering personalities of Trump and Clinton, the debate between Virginia Senator Tim Kaine, and Indiana Republican Governor Mike Pence offered the possibility of a more civil and sober conversation about issues that divide the two national party tickets. At times it was just that, whether on the economy, immigration, the chaos in the Middle East or abortion.

But for much of the evening, it was a boisterous proxy war by a pair of running mates whose goal was to take down the other's presidential nominee. They squabbled, they disagreed, they interrupted one another, they rolled out canned lines, and they feigned indignation.

It was bad enough almost from the start that, barely a third of the way through the 90-minute debate, moderator Elaine Quijano of CBS News admonished the candidates to back off. "The people at home cannot understand either one of you when you speak over each other," she said.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Overall it was an unsatisfying, disjointed debate, as the two candidates brushed past specific questions to open up other arguments at will. It probably changed few minds and no doubt brought some encouragement to the bases of the two parties. In that way it was a typical vice-presidential debate.

Both Kaine and Pence understood their objectives. Kaine's was to hurl Trump and everything he has said in Pence's face and force him to respond. He began by using an opening question about preparedness to be president, pivoting to a series of attacks on Trump.

Pence's role was to do what Trump could not do consistently during the first presidential debate, which was to prosecute a case against Clinton - highlighting both her policy vulnerabilities as Secretary of State and questions about her private email server and the Clinton Foundation. He was more effective by far than Trump, but he struggled to fully defend everything Trump has said and done.

Kaine accused Trump of running an "insult-driven, selfish, me-first" campaign. Pence took umbrage at that. "You and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign," he said, and then launched into a catalogue of complaints about Clinton, President Barack Obama and the state of the world under the two of them.

With that, the evening on the campus of Longwood University seesawed back and forth; occasionally there was serious policy discussion, but then it was quickly back to barbs and insults. Kaine was by far the more aggressive debater, overly so in the opening as he appeared almost too eager to make the entire evening about Trump.

Pence appeared taken aback by the assault, though he surely understood that it would be coming. More disciplined than Trump, and with a baritone voice that evoked a sense of seriousness, he battled back.

Discover more

World

Parade features float showing Trump 'executing' Clinton

05 Oct 12:17 AM
World

The VP debate: Pence attacks Putin

05 Oct 02:45 AM
World

'A trainwreck': Clinton's VP pick panned

05 Oct 02:59 AM
World

Winners and losers from the Vice Presidential debate

05 Oct 04:26 AM

Were it not for the land mines Trump had left for Pence to tiptoe through, it might have been a different debate. Pence pressed at every opportunity to raise questions about Clinton, questions that Trump failed to raise at the first debate.

But Kaine kept returning to Trump, daring Pence to defend his decision not to release his taxes; to praise Russian President Vladimir Putin; or to explain Trump's comments about women, Mexicans and others.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Throughout the campaign, Pence has walked a line between being loyal to the man who put him on the ticket and protecting his own political future. That was the case again yesterday, though it's likely he did more to help himself than to absolve Trump of the charges Kaine kept levelling.

Kaine dared Pence to defend Trump's decisions not to release his taxes and to praise Russian President Vladimir Putin. Photo / AP
Kaine dared Pence to defend Trump's decisions not to release his taxes and to praise Russian President Vladimir Putin. Photo / AP

At times he simply sought to deny that Trump had said or done things Kaine brought up, whether in calling for the deportation of the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants or praising Putin as a stronger leader than Obama.

Kaine was far more ready, even eager, to take on criticism of Clinton, jumping at the chance to compare the Clinton Foundation with Trump's charity. Whether his style sat well with undecided voters, those few who are still making up their minds, is another question.

Both Pence and Kaine have low-key personalities, and neither is known for slashing, negative politics, though the traditional role of a vice-presidential candidate is to carry the attack against the other party's presidential nominee. Pence had the more difficult task yesterday, forced to take the stage after Trump suffered through one of the worst weeks of his candidacy - a week that began with the Hofstra debate, where polls declared Clinton the winner, and that spiralled downward from there.

The damage to Trump was mostly self-inflicted, starting the morning after the debate with insults of a former Miss Universe and followed by an early-morning tweet storm that extended the controversy. Then came a New York Times exclusive that revealed that Trump had claimed US$916 million($1.277b) in losses on his tax returns during the 1990s and, that same night, a rambling, off-script performance at a rally.

Trump's week was his worst since immediately after the Democratic convention, when he got into a verbal exchange with a Gold Star family; that, combined with Clinton's convention bounce, put the Republican ticket behind in the polls by the end of August. The effect of the past several days was that Trump appeared to arrest the gains he had been making in the polls before the first debate, if not begin to reverse them.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Four years ago, Vice President Joe Biden had to follow a weak performance by Obama, who lost his opening debate against Mitt Romney. Biden needed to reenergise a Democratic base demoralised by Obama's performance. He did that with a display of aggressiveness that contrasted with Obama's laconic posture against Romney in Denver. Biden did not have to answer for or defend controversial behaviour on the part of the President.

Still, it was left to Obama to produce the real rebound in the second of the three presidential debates, just as it will be Trump's challenge to deliver a more consistent and focused performance against Clinton when the two meet at Washington University in St Louis on Monday.

Tim Kaine

• Democrat

• Age: 58

• Moderate Democrat

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

• Senator for Virginia

• Former Governor of Virginia

• Former Democratic party president

• Lawyer, Spanish speaker

Mike Pence

• Republican

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

• Age: 57

• Describes himself as "Christian, conservative and Republican".

• Governor of Indiana

• Lawyer

• Senior Republican leader

• Supported Ted Cruz in the primaries

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Save

    Share this article

Latest from Politics

Premium
Analysis

‘Ardern lives in exile’: Jones attacks gas ban, calls for apology in fiery hearing

19 Jun 05:00 AM
Politics

NZ Herald Live: David Seymour speaks to media

Premium
Opinion

Audrey Young: Cooks crisis complicates Luxon's big China meeting

19 Jun 12:49 AM

Jono and Ben brew up a tea-fuelled adventure in Sri Lanka

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from Politics

Premium
‘Ardern lives in exile’: Jones attacks gas ban, calls for apology in fiery hearing

‘Ardern lives in exile’: Jones attacks gas ban, calls for apology in fiery hearing

19 Jun 05:00 AM

The Resources Minister came to the select committee sporting a Make NZ Great Again hat.

NZ Herald Live: David Seymour speaks to media

NZ Herald Live: David Seymour speaks to media

Premium
Audrey Young: Cooks crisis complicates Luxon's big China meeting

Audrey Young: Cooks crisis complicates Luxon's big China meeting

19 Jun 12:49 AM
Foreign Minister Winston Peters explains evacuation of NZ embassy in Tehran

Foreign Minister Winston Peters explains evacuation of NZ embassy in Tehran

Help for those helping hardest-hit
sponsored

Help for those helping hardest-hit

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP