What is a woman? The Elephant tackles the transgender debate

The Elephant is a new online video series that tackles the conversations New Zealanders often avoid. It dives into big, uncomfortable questions, looking beyond the echo chambers in search of a fearless and honest debate. This week in episode nine, hosts Miriama Kamo and Mark Crysell confront one of today’s most divisive issues: transgender identity.

The question “What is a woman?” has shifted from a simple definition to one of the most polarising social debates of our time.

It’s a question that’s tied politicians up in knots, caused near riots when British activist Posie Parker came to Auckland in 2023 and led to a New Zealand First bill defining a woman as “an adult human biological female”.

Speaking on NZ Herald’s The Elephant web series, former Race Relations Conciliator Dame Susan Devoy said the question itself has changed over her lifetime.

“If you’d asked me 40 years ago, I probably would have definitely said you were a woman by your biological definition,” she said.

“But now, in my 60s, I think you can be a woman by your identity … most of my friends would probably disagree.”

Devoy, who declined to sign a petition banning transgender women from female sport, said she worries less about rules and more about the treatment of trans people.

“What concerns me most is the way that these women ... are so demonised,” she said.

But the former squash world champion also acknowledged the fairness debate in elite sport, saying she would want “a physical level playing field” if she were still competing.

Former Race Relations Conciliator Dame Susan Devoy told The Elephant she used to think a woman was defined by biology but now believed it could be a matter of identity.

Retired psychotherapist and Women’s Rights Party member Linde Rose strongly believes “a woman is an adult human female”.

She said biology is being erased.

“Gender is overriding sex ... giving birth, breastfeeding, all those bodily things trans women can’t do.”

Rose said concerns about safety and women’s spaces are real.

“We feel unsafe. We feel that we’re the ones that have to self-exclude ourselves,” she said, adding that the party often meets in secret because venues are targeted by activists.

Trans executive and community leader Mary Haddock-Staniland rejected the idea she is a threat.

“I am a trans woman. I present as a woman. I’m of no threat to anybody,” she said.

“My intention as a human would never be to make someone feel unsafe in my presence.”

Haddock-Staniland said Māori and Pasifika cultures historically recognised gender diversity.

“Our culture once celebrated it as something sacred ... that understanding was lost and replaced by fear.”

British journalist and teacher Dr Debbie Hayton underwent gender reassignment surgery in 2016.

She says both sides are trapped in anxiety and distrust.

“I’ve been trying to be cancelled from both sides,” she said.

“Everybody is frightened that terms are going to be redefined to their disadvantage.”

Hayton distinguishes herself from women.

“I’m not a woman because I don’t perceive myself to be a woman,” she said.

“What matters is our shared perception ... Linde doesn’t, so to Linde I’m a man, and I’m quite happy with that.”

Despite the clash, all agreed the issue is deeply personal – and volatile.

Devoy said navigating it requires “grown-up conversations”, while Haddock-Staniland urged “mana-enhancing” dialogue even when it is uncomfortable.

As Hayton put it: “Treating each other as human beings, respecting each other, and deferring to each other is really important in a society”.

Watch, listen, and join the conversation – new episodes drop every Thursday across digital, social, and broadcast platforms. The Elephant is made with the support of NZ On Air.