NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather forecasts

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
    • The Great NZ Road Trip
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
    • Cooking the Books
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • What the Actual
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / New Zealand

Toby Manhire: Time to flag the bitterness of debate

Toby Manhire
By Toby Manhire
NZ Herald·
3 Mar, 2016 08:08 PM5 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

Mike Hosking says to not vote for change based on the fact John Key thought the idea up is ridiculous. Irregardless of who thought the idea up, the result is the only thing that matters. Make your vote count.
Toby Manhire
Opinion by Toby ManhireLearn more
In simple terms now we should vote for the flag we like the most — or dislike the least.

At last the Great New Zealand Flag-Off has entered the final furlong, with voting in the second referendum starting today.

And, apart from the failure to put a designer on the consideration panel, the near-empty rooms at public consultations, the mockery from international media, the decision not to listen to public views after the longlist of 40 was published, the release of a shortlist with three out of the four dominated by a fern and two of them almost identical, the law change to introduce a fifth contender, the flying of the wrong alternative flag on the harbour bridge, the accusations of distraction and legacy fixation, the interminable demands that the $26 million budget might have been better spent on this or that, the swivel-eyed conspiracy theories and moronic Facebook memes, the objectionable attacks on public figures who express a view, the point-scoring, the politicising, the claims of politicising that really just amounted themselves to politicising, the general bickering, peevishness and name-calling - apart from that, it's all gone swimmingly.

Still, the course of flag love never did run smooth; it could be that all the turbulence is a good omen. In Canada and South Africa, remember, the changing of the flag was full of mishap, muddle and animus, too.

If the polls are right and we stick with the current design, maybe we'll have another bash and do it better in 10 or 20 years.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

If the polls are wrong, and the Lockwood design sneaks through, maybe those of us who today squint at the sight of it will grow to like it over time. You never know.

READ MORE:

• Barry Soper: Flag vote last chance for a generation
• Choosing our flag: Three-week countdown begins
• New flag could fly at Rio Olympics

Promises of "robust debates" and "public conversations", however well intentioned, tend usually to produce either tumbleweed or rancour. But this one has felt worse than most. If filling out one of those intermediate-school sheets the Flag Panel distributed, asking "What do we stand for?", on the basis of the debate, I'd write simply: "Adolescent squabbling."

I can't help but wonder if some of the vileness, on both sides, in the flag debate stems from the essential shallowness of the debate. "Let's have a big discussion about nationhood and what it means!"

Great, you mean, for example, should we revisit our unusual constitutional status? "No, God no, not that! A big discussion about nationhood but just not that bit. Carry on!" The inevitable, almost intrinsic, superficiality gave rise to an argument that became a proxy for all sorts of other beefs and agendas: a baffling great symbolic soup.

Discover more

New Zealand

Choosing our flag: Countdown begins

02 Mar 08:46 PM
Airlines

Auckland Airport flying jumbo alternative flag

02 Mar 10:00 PM
New Zealand|politics

New flag could fly at Rio Olympics

03 Mar 02:14 AM
New Zealand

Flag debate: Migrant community leaders

07 Mar 04:00 PM

In hindsight, it was probably inevitable that the debate was going to become a lightning rod of anti-Key sentiment for the PM's most zealous enemies. Inevitable, but daft. To vote against the Lockwood alternative because you don't like John Key is, I think, as daft as imputing Key-loathing on the part of anyone who simply doesn't like the alternative flag.

One more daft thing, while we're at it: the argument that declining to vote against the Union-Jacked incumbent now is to kiss goodbye the opportunity to change forever. It may not happen again for some years, but moods change like tides; who's to say it won't return to the fore in, say, 2025 or 2040? Were that to happen as part of a debate on our constitutional status, all the better.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Key reckons that sticking with the status quo will mean no new flag without becoming a republic. But, however charming William and Kate and their children might be, a republican shift is not nearly as implausible as he implies. Key also said, a few years back, that New Zealand becoming a republic was "inevitable".

The real political risk for Key in pushing for a flag change was never the hardcore antagonists wanting to give him a bloody nose.

As he pointed out this week, his advocacy does not appear to have hurt his personal poll rating. What could have hurt, however, would have been a vocal keep-the-historic-flag voice from within the ranks.

Just look, by way of contrast, at the other side of the world, where Key's friend and centre-right counterpart David Cameron is having a miserable time making a case for Britain to stay in the European Union ahead of their own, albeit miles more important, referendum.

Last week Boris Johnson, the Old Etonian, faux-baffled, bicycle-mounted mayor of London and Tory MP, revealed that he would campaign for an Out vote.

This wasn't about Cameron, no, no, no, of course not. It was about principle and not for a minute motivated by long-held ambitions of becoming prime minister himself.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

That no National MP with sights on the leadership has done anything remotely similar - and there are plenty of conservative-minded senior caucus members who strongly prefer the incumbent, thank you very much - just shows how solid Key's position is. The fealty runs deep.

In the meantime, as those orange-flecked envelopes land in mailboxes, my outlandishly radical advice, for what it's worth and at risk of stating the bleeding obvious, is to vote for the flag you like the best, or dislike the least.

On this, I'm firmly with the Prime Minister. The other day he told breakfast TV viewers that New Zealanders should "make the call on what they believe - if they like it they should vote for it, and if they don't, they shouldn't". That pretty much covers it.

Debate on this article is now closed.

Save

    Share this article

Latest from New Zealand

New Zealand

Watch: Major highway blocked by slip, Auckland flights delayed as intense storm strikes

09 May 08:09 AM
Crime

Man's 11-day crime spree targets police by spitting and threatening to kill staff

09 May 08:00 AM
New Zealand

Auckland War Memorial Museum closed to public after asbestos discovery

09 May 07:49 AM

One tiny baby’s fight to survive

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from New Zealand

Watch: Major highway blocked by slip, Auckland flights delayed as intense storm strikes

Watch: Major highway blocked by slip, Auckland flights delayed as intense storm strikes

09 May 08:09 AM

Motorists are being warned to expect hazardous driving conditions.

Man's 11-day crime spree targets police by spitting and threatening to kill staff

Man's 11-day crime spree targets police by spitting and threatening to kill staff

09 May 08:00 AM
Auckland War Memorial Museum closed to public after asbestos discovery

Auckland War Memorial Museum closed to public after asbestos discovery

09 May 07:49 AM
'We've had enough': Red Square protest opposes pay equity changes

'We've had enough': Red Square protest opposes pay equity changes

09 May 07:21 AM
Connected workers are safer workers 
sponsored

Connected workers are safer workers 

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • What the Actual
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven CarGuide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP