NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Herald NOW
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
  • Herald NOW
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Politics
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Herald NOW
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / New Zealand

Toby Manhire: Kim vs John - Will we see such drama again?

Toby Manhire
By Toby Manhire
NZ Herald·
4 Jul, 2013 05:30 PM4 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

German internet tycoon Kim Dotcom says Prime Minister John Key is lying about what he knew about him before police raided his Coatesville home in January 2012.
Toby Manhire
Opinion by Toby ManhireLearn more

So Kim goes, "You know I know." And John is, like,"I know you don't know, I know you don't know, but that's fine." And Kim is all, "Why are you turning red, Prime Minister?" And John is like, totally, "I'm not. Why are you sweating?" And then he goes, "See you later. It's been fun." And everyone is totally, like, ohmigod, miaow!

No doubt you'd find a higher standard of debate in the Helensville Primary School playground, but at least that gave us the am-dram altercation we were holding out for during Wednesday afternoon's meeting of the two towering figures of contemporary New Zealand politics, John Key and Kim Dotcom. Those of us who had visions of a bristling, moody, noir-ish collision, something like that De Niro-Pacino scene in Heat, were always going to be disappointed.

But at least they eyeballed each other. Better than nothing.

In fact, some of the supporting acts at the intelligence and security committee, meeting in public session to discuss the amendments to the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) Act that would expand the spy agency's powers, outshone the headliners. Especially good was Thomas Beagle.

The soft-spoken head of the Tech Liberty group, whose blogged analysis of the proposed legislative changes has been consistently impressive, held his own in the face of a melodramatic line of questioning from the Prime Minister.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Mr Key summoned up a hypothetical question for him: what would he say, as one who had called for limitations on government spying, to the family of somebody killed by a terrorist?

Refusing to be flummoxed, Mr Beagle pointed out this was "a meaningless question", the logical extension of which was we should leave no liberty unbreached in the effort to forestall the suffering of this imagined family. Cameras in everyone's houses? Torture? Whatever it takes.

Mr Beagle, like Mr Dotcom, and everyone else, had only a few minutes before the committee. But even that sampler menu was enough to underline how useful, how democratically healthy, it would be to hold a wider review into New Zealand's security services.

John Key deserves praise for taking the time to chair the sessions, even if he tried the patience of some with the sullen indifference on day one and the cod-naivety on day two. (At least, I hope he was playing it cute in pretending not to know anything about encryption; the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.)

And Mr Key is just the man to navigate us all through a proper, broader conversation about the kind of sensibly calibrated surveillance agencies we need. It could all be done and dusted in a couple of months. The sprint, however, in pushing the GCSB bill and associated telecommunications intercept legislation through the parliamentary process under urgency, is unnecessary and wrong.

Discover more

New Zealand|politics

Dotcom: 'You know I know'

03 Jul 06:57 AM
New Zealand|politics

Key, Dotcom clash over GCSB bill

03 Jul 05:30 PM
Opinion

John Armstrong: Classic signs of a trap in the making

03 Jul 09:30 PM
Opinion

Toby Manhire: Oh baby, how the times have changed ...

25 Jul 05:30 PM

David Shearer awkwardly attempted to thank Mr Dotcom for bringing everyone together. And it's certainly true that the faintly dream-like rendezvous - Mr Dotcom, Mr Key, Mr Shearer, Russel Norman, John Banks and Peter Dunne all gathered before an eager circus crowd - would never have happened had the GCSB not been caught out doing illegal snooping by the high-powered legal team enlisted by a flamboyant, Coatesville-based German emigre with a dogmatic US state prosecutor in pursuit.

At times it's hard to fathom the impact that Mr Dotcom's decision to settle in New Zealand has had on our politics. Without it we'd not have seen, of course, the gung-ho raid on his mansion. Mr Banks would not be in court facing a private prosecution of donations to his mayoral campaign.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

The Prime Minister would not have had to waste all that time so conscientiously not reading the police report about those donations. Nor would he have faced all those uncomfortable questions about calling up a friend from school days to head up the GCSB. Peter Dunne would still be a proud minister of the crown. "Brainfade" would not have become one of the most commonplace nouns in our political lexicon.

But for all the material dispatched from the great Dotcom scandal centrifuge, John Key sails on, serene, relaxed. Polling at a gobsmacking 60-something in the preferred prime minister stakes, in large part thanks to the opposition's clumsy shadow-boxing, he looks just about unsinkable.

Unless, of course, Mr Dotcom can produce the evidence that he promises proves that the Prime Minister, contrary to repeated assurances, knew all about him before last January's big raid.

But, he says, that scene won't play until his extradition hearing. And that's a day we may never see.

In the meantime, it all looks rather like a mega-bluff. See you later, whistles the Prime Minister. It's been fun. Sadly, I doubt we'll see them in the same room again.

Save

    Share this article

Latest from New Zealand

New Zealand

'A let-down': Iwi challenges DoC, minister over ski field deals

18 Jun 09:18 AM
New Zealand

Police investigating after body found in Christchurch carpark

18 Jun 09:17 AM
New Zealand

Numbers revealed for tonight's $25m Powerball jackpot

18 Jun 08:23 AM

Jono and Ben brew up a tea-fuelled adventure in Sri Lanka

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from New Zealand

'A let-down': Iwi challenges DoC, minister over ski field deals

'A let-down': Iwi challenges DoC, minister over ski field deals

18 Jun 09:18 AM

They allege the Crown ignored Treaty obligations by not engaging with them.

Police investigating after body found in Christchurch carpark

Police investigating after body found in Christchurch carpark

18 Jun 09:17 AM
Numbers revealed for tonight's $25m Powerball jackpot

Numbers revealed for tonight's $25m Powerball jackpot

18 Jun 08:23 AM
Premium
Has Tory Whanau's experience put women off running for mayor?

Has Tory Whanau's experience put women off running for mayor?

18 Jun 07:26 AM
Help for those helping hardest-hit
sponsored

Help for those helping hardest-hit

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP