Conversations between a police negotiator and a man suspected of supporting the Christchurch mosque terrorist and planning his own mass shooting can now be revealed.
Artemiy Vldimirovich Dubovskiy, known as Troy, died after a standoff with armed police at a suburban Christchurch park in March 2019, just 12 days after the terror attack that left 51 worshippers dead at two city mosques.
The day before, police had raided the 54-year-old’s St Martins home after a tip-off from a member of the public.
Officers found a cache of firearms, including a modified semi-automatic weapon, ammunition and “violent extremist content”, along with Nazi uniforms, helmets and clothing.
Yesterday, Coroner Heather McKenzie began an inquest into the 54-year-old’s death – a suspected suicide.
She heard Dubovskiy was “one of many” people being assessed as “persons of interest” after the terror attack and the items police found in his home gave them “significant concern” and it became an “immediate priority” to find him.
When he was located at the park, it became apparent he was planning for “suicide by cop”.
A police negotiator spoke with him on the phone for more than three hours and at one stage reported to colleagues “there is an 80% chance Dubovskiy will surrender”.
During the calls, Dubovskiy was said to be “communicative” and “made no demands or concessions”.
He even called the negotiator back when his phone cut out.
It is thought the calls ended only when Dubovskiy’s cellphone died.
The negotiator explained his primary role was to work with “those in crisis” including people “attempting to die by suicide” or “in high-risk incidents”.
“It consists of communicating with people to influence their behaviour to safely resolve an incident,” he said.
The negotiator said before Dubovskiy was found, there was a suggestion he was on his way to the Christchurch Central Police station.
He had sent a message to an associate “outlining his intent to die by suicide”.
At that stage, the negotiator requested permission to make contact with Dubovskiy.
Soon after, Dubovskiy’s car was located, he was contained in the park and negotiators made the first successful call to his cellphone.
“Hello Troy… it’s the police… what’s happening with you there?” the officer said in the call starting at 12.38am.
Dubovskiy replied: “You must be very proud of yourself… I’m not going to jail anymore, especially in this country… the best way for you? To kill me – because I am not going to give up. I see everything.”
Negotiator: “Nobody wants this to happen Troy – nobody’s going to force that on you.”
Dubovskiy: “What if I try to break through? Would you shoot?
Negotiator: “No. What we want you to do is just step out of the car… hands where we can see them. We’ll sort everything out later."
Dubovskiy: “I need a few moments to say goodbye to some people.”
Negotiator: “What would [your family] think? I don’t want you to get hurt at all… I just want you to think about your family… you need to come out of the car and speak to us.”
Dubovskiy: “I said, I need a few minutes. I need to call my parents.”
He goes on to tell the negotiator that police in New Zealand are “useless” and that he is “disappointed” in their efforts to help him and his family in relation to certain issues, including someone close to him with a serious drug problem.
“Don’t expect me to give up… I was trained in Russian police… special forces… I have three wars behind [me] and… I find you absolutely ridiculous,” he said.
“This is my final message.”
Dubovskiy was suspicious that police were “sneaking” up on his car.
“While you’re speaking with me, I guarantee your safety... There’s no bulls***ting you. What I want is for you to come out of the car safely,” the negotiator assured.
Dubovskiy: “How did you catch me? General interest.”
Negotiator: “I’m sure when you come out of the car and speak to us, they’ll explain that to you.”
He then spoke to the suspect about his parents, noting they were “incredibly worried” about him.
Dubovskiy asked if the negotiator could call him back “in a couple of minutes” and give him time to contact his family.
The negotiator convinced him to stay on the phone and keep talking.
“I’m starting to understand you,” he said.
Dubovskiy spoke more about a family issue that police, he said, had not been able to help with.
The negotiator continued to try to get him out of the car.
“That’s probably the biggest thing we need to talk about now,” he said.
Dubovskiy said: “Don’t be worried and you don’t need to block the road, I’m not going anywhere. I just need to make some calls.”
He agreed to stay on the line with the negotiator, but started making calls on another phone.
“I’m here, don’t worry,” he said.
Dubovskiy told the negotiator that, as far as he was concerned, his life was destroyed.
He did not want to go back to jail, his parents were “too old” to visit him and he would lose his job.
“Everything’s done,” he said.
“I have to start everything new after jail... it’s quite unacceptable.
“Not to sound like a mad, barking dog... before [the] earthquake everything was fine... now... even driving is absolutely unacceptable... people do not follow rules... no respect.”
He continued to speak about social structures, homelessness, genetically modified food and other frustrations.
“There is a lot there,” the negotiator said.
“You sound like an incredibly principled and disciplined man... you feel like the world and New Zealand is not what it used to be.”
Dubovskiy said: “That is my strong view, New Zealand is going down.”
“Muslims, n*****s... they come here, they are surrounded... I have post-traumatic stress syndrome... but you put me in jail instead of getting me some psychological help.”
He explained that he was injured in the 2011 earthquake and “nothing” was done to help him.
“I could go, of course... but there is no chance,” he said.
The negotiator empathised with Dubovskiy and continued to try to convince him to get out of the car.
“I understand your principles, I understand where you’re coming from... but I truly believe that [your family] still needs you,” he said.
“[They need] to know you’re okay – wherever you are, whatever happens.”
Dubovskiy promised the negotiator he was not going to “play any silly games”.
“It’s absolutely unnecessary,” he said.
Dubovskiy then continued to rant about immigrants to New Zealand. He acknowledged he could be considered “racist” but stood by his stance.
“But I never said, ‘let’s kill everyone’... I want people to live where they’re born... not to escape, not to go and be a real parasite,” he said.
“If you’re helpful, if you’re able to do something... but everyone and anyone? At least I’ve got a chance to tell somebody what I think.
“If you live in this country, you should respect this country.”
The negotiator encouraged Dubovskiy to show his “strength” and “pride” and attitude of “not giving up” and “coming out of the car”.
Dubovskiy continued to espouse views on the state of the world, the lack of hard work among teenagers, and “old world” values.
The negotiator continued to listen and placate Dubovskiy.
“I’ll stay with you until you’re ready to come out of the car,” he promised.
“How do you see tonight being resolved?”
Dubovskiy said: “I’m still thinking about that.”
Around this time, he called his mother on another phone.
They had a conversation in Russian and Dubovskiy talked about “losing blood”.
When he came back on the phone with the negotiator he sounded less energetic.
Authorities assume that by then, he had at least one self-inflicted injury.
“You know that I want to resolve this safely?” said the negotiator.
“I’d like to know what you think, how you want this to end?”
Dubovskiy: “Knowing what is ahead of me, knowing what is waiting for me – I don’t want to leave the car, it’s something of a normal life.
“Once I leave the car, it will be finished... after some things, life cannot be the same... it is separated, before and after.
“You never show weakness... you fight til the end.”
The negotiator did a “welfare check”, telling Dubovskiy he had to check if he was “okay” and “not injured”.
“I’m talking to you,” Dubovskiy said, quickly changing the subject.
“What I had at home was kept a secret and no people knew about it... how did you find out? What was the leak? Who set me up?” he said.
“It’s all gone, it’s all done.”
The first call lasted more than two hours and the second was just over three minutes.
“To be honest, it’s not very nice... while I stay in the car, I still feel free,” Dubovskiy said when asked about how he felt about his “situation”.
The final call was for 13 minutes.
The last thing Dubovskiy said to the negotiator was about his family. Suppression orders prevent the details from being published.
After the phone cut out, the negotiator was not able to contact Dubovskiy again.
“We have pretty good indicators of progress along the way... the fact we remained on the phone with him, there were definitely signs of progress,” the negotiator told the court.
“At the end, he was certainly contemplating [surrender].
“It came as a shock when I was told... how it ended. You try your best to get someone out of something alive, and then they haven’t survived – it was quite an emotional shock.
“We had a good rapport... There was progress there, he wasn’t saying ‘no, definitely not’.”
The negotiator was asked if there was “value or risk” in getting one of Dubovskiy’s family members on the phone to help police as a “third party intermediary”.
He said, given the man had expressed “wanting to be shot by police”, it would have been “ill-advised”.
In some cases, he explained, people at the centre of negotiations often saw that as the “last opportunity” to speak to family and he was more focused on getting Dubovskiy out of the car and in a safe position to speak to them in person later.
A relative of Dubovskiy, who is attending the inquest, had a chance to question the negotiator and other witnesses.
The relative, who has name suppression, thanked all of the responders for “trying to save Troy” and doing their part to help.
“I feel like at the end he had a lot of trust in you and was happy to talk to you, thank you,” they said.
Coroner McKenzie has also heard evidence from other police involved in the stand-off including those from the Special Tactics Group.
Yesterday, an officer recalled a briefing he attended about Dubovskiy before the man’s car was located at the park.
He said Dubovskiy was described as “a person of interest in relation to Operation Deans”, which was the name given to the terror attack investigation.
“There were concerns around his mental health… his military training… he had similar ideologies to the mosque shooter,” the officer said.
“Tactical equipment found at his house with white writing on it was similar to the mosque shooter.”
Another officer told the court there were concerns Dubovskiy was “planning an attack on police”.
The police threat assessment methodology was applied and it was deemed Dubovskiy would likely be “assaultive, resisting and in possession of a weapon”.
“It was a very fluid and high-risk situation,” the officer said.
A third officer gave evidence about Dubovskiy’s behaviour while in his car at the park.
“His face was lit up like he was on FaceTime… he was obviously talking on the phone, texting… and moving around inside the vehicle,” he recalled.
He said it looked like Dubovskiy was “taking pills” at various points, which were “washed down” from liquid in a long-neck bottle that he believed could have been “a stubbie”.
“His lighter was going on and off… he reached for something in the back and then started banging his head on the headrest… convulsing, angry-type movements,” he said.
Police negotiators had been speaking with Dubovskiy but had lost contact with him, probably because his phone battery was flat.
Because of this, they were not able to tell him in advance that an army light operational vehicle (LOV) was being deployed to assess him and his vehicle.
When Dubovskiy saw the LOV he “got more agitated” and started moving around inside the car again.
“He could have been looking for petrol… a weapon… a bomb,” said the officer.
“He could have certainly hurt himself… His movements got a bit frantic.”
None of the officers spoken to yesterday saw Dubovsky self-harming.
“It all happened pretty quickly,” said one.
The inquest continues.
After hearing all of the evidence, Coroner McKenzie will make a formal ruling on whether Dubovskiy’s death was a suicide.
She is also tasked with addressing a number of other issues, including whether any “action or inaction” by police in relation to locating and handling Dubovskiy before his death was appropriate.
At the age of 35, Dubovskiy was found guilty by a jury at Christchurch District Court of aggravated burglary and unlawful possession of an imitation firearm.
He was sentenced to four years’ imprisonment.
Dubovskiy had burgled a Russian couple he knew, court documents show.
When the pair returned to their home on October 22, 1999, they noticed signs of an intruder.
Armed and balaclava-clad, Dubovskiy confronted the Russians.
Dubovskiy pointed a replica Luger, a German pistol well-known for its use during World War II, at the man’s head.
Believing the pistol to be real, the man grappled with Dubovskiy for the gun before escaping with his wife.
The Armed Offenders Squad was alerted, but it was not until two days later that Dubovskiy surrendered himself to police with the assistance of a friend and his father.
In his statement to police, Dubovskiy admitted he was the intruder but said he could not recall many aspects of the incident because he was drunk.
Dubovskiy has several other convictions, including for firearms offences and assaulting a police officer, and was on bail at the time of the home invasion.
His last offence was in June 2013, the Herald understands.
Anna Leask is a senior journalist who covers national crime and justice. She joined the Herald in 2008 and has worked as a journalist for more than 20 years with a particular focus on family and gender-based violence, child abuse, sexual violence, homicides, mental health and youth crime. She writes, hosts and produces the award-winning podcast A Moment In Crime, released monthly on nzherald.co.nz