Sunny Kaushal. Photo / RNZ, Samuel Rillstone
By Louisa Cleave and Jimmy Ellingham of RNZ
The chief executive of Retail NZ says she quit a ministerial advisory group because her relationship with its chairman became untenable.
Carolyn Young is one of three business leaders advising the Government on how to combat retail crime, to have walked away in the past month, leaving just two members to complete the work.
Young’s departure follows that of Foodstuffs North Island senior manager Lindsay Rowles and Michael Hill national retail manager Michael Bell, who quit late last year.
The group is led by Sunny Kaushal, who remains as chairman, with one other member remaining, Hamilton liquor retailer Ash Parmar.
Young said while Kaushal had the confidence of Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith, he was not the right person to chair the group.
In an interview with Checkpoint on Monday, she told Lisa Owen about its “unpleasant environment”.
Goldsmith made the appointments to the group in mid-2024 and they were supposed to be for two years.
Since then, the MAG has faced criticism for its spending, including on catered meetings around New Zealand and for its inner-city Auckland office space.
It has also faced questions about its value for money after it was revealed that Kaushal invoiced more than $230,000 for work in its first 12 months.
Kaushal defends the group’s work, saying it operates under its $1.8 million annual budget, which comes from the proceeds of crime fund.
Ministerial advisory groups have been set up to provide expert advice to the Government on issues such as aged-care funding and transnational crime.
The retail crime group was created after a sharp spike in crime in the sector. Members are appointed by the Government.
Young said her resignation was a difficult decision. It came after long conversations at the Retail NZ board level.
“We know that our members were really keen for me to stay on the group, but it really became untenable in terms of the relationship with the chair and just some of the ongoing communication that I’ve had from them and himself, really implicating my professionalism and who I am and how I work.
“I just didn’t think that was the right thing for me and a professional way to go about things.”
Young said the dairy owners sector group, previously led by Kaushal, had made a personal attack on her.
There were conversations within the MAG about that, which she described as “less than satisfactory”, as well as ongoing communication with Kaushal about engagement work by Young.
“It just felt like it was a continual battle to constantly be able to speak about what retailers are really looking for and how that plays out.
“It wasn’t leading to getting good outcomes for retail, and that’s really the key thing that we’re after,” Young said.
“Certainly, it was a very unpleasant environment. It wasn’t a nice place to go and spend an afternoon in a meeting room, that’s for sure.”
She said the group’s effectiveness would be judged in time and, in her view, its key piece of work was about recommendations to strengthen trespass laws.
“But I’m not sure about anything else – whether it’s going to make a significant difference to retail crime and providing protections to retail workers.”
When asked about Kaushal, Young said it was important he was involved with the group.
“I’m not sure that he’s necessarily the right person as the chair, but the minister clearly has confidence in him and isn’t about to make a change - [that] is my understanding.”
On the group’s spending, Young said it was fine so long as it wasn’t out of kilter with other advisory groups.
She said the office space was significant for the group’s small number of people, and she was sure officials would make sure there was good accountability for what was spent.
Rowles and Bell were contacted for comment.
Kaushal said he was at the Indian Republic Day celebration event on Monday, so couldn’t be interviewed.
In a written response to questions from RNZ he said the changes “reflect normal leadership movement in any organisation”.
“Members hold other senior roles and when business demands increase, or people step into new appointments, they sometimes need to step back from external commitments,” he said.
“The work of the MAG continues. We have a busy year of new work ahead.
“The group remains focused on delivering practical, evidence-informed advice to improve safety for retailers and communities.”
He did not answer questions about whether, as chairman, he took any responsibility for the resignations; how the group worked together and if there was any conflict; and what work is in the pipeline for the group this year and if the resignations would affect that.
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith was also unavailable for an interview.
“Due to external commitments and job changes, Carolyn Young, Michael Bell and Lindsay Rowles have recently resigned from the Ministerial Advisory Group,” the minister said in a statement.
“I thank them for their work and wish them well in their next endeavours.
“The MAG has been extremely busy over the last 12 months generating detailed policy proposals, including new citizens’ arrest powers, a shoplifting infringement regime and strengthening trespass laws.
“These were crucial in developing the Crimes Amendment Bill, which passed its first reading in December. We plan to pass this into law before the election.”
Goldsmith said the Government was determined to give businesses more options, and to fix the basics in law and order.
“In order to achieve different outcomes, we need to try different things,” he said.
“We are now considering next steps.”
Just before Christmas RNZ revealed criticism of the group for its spending of almost $24,000 on a series of 22 well-catered stakeholder engagement meetings around New Zealand.
Two meetings in Auckland each cost more than $4000, while another cost more than $3000.
Rock melon, goat’s cheese and prosciutto crostini, mini chicken and leek savouries, and $9 bottles of Coke were among menu items around the country.
Kaushal said the meetings were an important part of his mission to fix retail crime in New Zealand.
After a select committee hearing, where the spending at one of the Auckland meetings came under fire, Goldsmith told the NZ Herald the event was “clearly over-catered” and “probably had too many scones”.
Labour MP Duncan Webb was critical of the cost of food at the meetings.
“It just sounds like he’s spending government funding lavishly,” he said.
RNZ has also revealed the Ministry of Justice, which provides back-office support to the group, has leased for it a central Auckland office space for $100,000 a year.
The ministry said the 389sq m space was used for meetings, video conferences and boardroom sessions, as well as having room for up to 70-80 people for engagements and events.
In his first year as the group’s chairman, Kaushal billed $238,625, at a daily rate of $920.
Chairman of the Ministerial Advisory Group on Transnational, Serious and Organised Crime, Steve Symon, received the same rate, while chief victims adviser Ruth Money is paid $850 for every day worked in the role.
Kaushal can work up to 250 days a year and invoiced for the maximum amount.
Among the staff supporting the group are three principal policy advisers.
RNZ has previously revealed that one position earns $1261 a day for a contract ending next month, another earns $1126 a day on a contract finishing in March, and the third is on $1036 a day on a contract ending in September.
RNZ has also revealed how ministry officials have provided advice to Goldsmith about concerns to do with Kaushal, however, the minister won’t release the information.
In December Kaushal said the group had delivered five “legislative-ready major policy papers” – addressing citizens’ arrests, strengthening trespass laws and allowing retailers to use pepper spray to defend themselves.
“I am on a mission. My focus is on the bigger goal, fixing retail crime in New Zealand, which is costing $2.7 billion per year,” he said.
The ministry and the minister’s office refused to release advice and recommendations from the group last year, including about trespass and “personal safety aides”, which included pepper spray.
- RNZ