Election 2023: The PM’s Job Interview - National leader Chris Luxon on the second election strategy and dealing with Winston Peters

National Party Christopher Luxon says it was he who made the final call to rule NZ First in as a potential governing partner – but dodged a question on whether he knew that campaign chair Chris Bishop was going to publicly float the prospect of a second election if talks with NZ First fell over.

The NZ Herald’s Shayne Currie, Liam Dann and Claire Trevett put Luxon and Labour leader Chris Hipkins through their paces in the NZ Herald’s PM’s Job Interviews, asking questions about leadership style and plans for the economy to the big decisions on a PM’s plate, such as the dance between the US and China and what it would take to send troops to war – and, yes, Winston Peters.

The panel asked Luxon about two significant calls in National’s campaign: the decision to rule in NZ First as a potential governing partner, and last Sunday’s airing of the risk National would not be able to cut a deal with NZ First, potentially forcing a second election.

Asked whether Luxon himself made the captain’s call to rule in NZ First after months of refusing to take a position either way, Luxon said the party had a strategy team that discussed the various approaches taken in the campaign. “So we all sign off on all of that. We have a series of regular discussions and debates about that.”

He said the group had a call at least once a day, usually in the early morning and sometimes at night.

Asked who made the final call on the NZ First decision, he said “I make decisions, I chair those meetings. That’s what I do.”

However, he fudged when asked whether he signed off on the Bishop’s move to talk to the Herald on Sunday about the “growing” possibility of a second election and the risk National could not close a deal with NZ First.

He said he had agreed to the broad strategy of pointing to the uncertainty that relying on NZ First would result in. However, when asked if he knew that specific line was coming out, he said “I knew that we were raising the issues around uncertainty, for sure, and that was one of the things that was discussed, that possibility.”

It has left Luxon scrambling to reassure the public about the prospect of a second election, and he repeated that in the Job Interview: “The reality is I don’t think we’ll get to that.”

He said on current polling, National and Act were either able, or nearly able, to govern without NZ First. He said he backed himself to make it work if he did need both parties, pointing to “big personalities” he’s dealt with in the past and his work transforming the National Party from the wreck it was after 2020 to having a good chance of reclaiming the Beehive.

“The bottom line is, I’ll make that work, you know. I will make that work. I back myself to make that work. You know, I’ve worked with big personalities in the corporate world that have been as difficult as anyone I’ve run into. I look at the political players, I’ve dealt with the National Party personalities in a dysfunctional era that we came through and we’ve pulled together a very good team in a very short period of time.”

Over the campaign, he’s dropped a lot of corporate jargon. He said he was a calm person: “I’m pretty even-keeled. I don’t scream, shout, rant and rave. I don’t get too high when things go well and I don’t get too low when things don’t go so well.”

He has also shown a tendency to keep trying when he’s mastering new skills: from pouring pints to milking goats. “I’m probably a reforming perfectionist, is probably basically my life script. I’ve learnt that healthy striving is better than being a perfectionist.”

Luxon also talked about his leadership style, saying he had studied leaders throughout his life and his own approach was to build a strong team and get the best out of them.

“You go to politics and you’re actually in the people game. And you find a bunch of people who are in parliament who aren’t very good with people skills. So that’s the challenge we’ve had in turning the National Party round in the last 18 months, is binding them together as a team and getting good performance out of each individual.”

He said a lot of politicians might be smart or good at debating in Parliament, but didn’t seem to work as a team. “And I think the thing is, politics is perceived as a very individual sport and actually it’s a team sport. I play first five and captain but I can’t be winger and prop too”

Most former Prime Ministers have given themselves ministerial portfolios on top of their main job – for former PM Sir John Key that was tourism – a portfolio Luxon that could fit Luxon well too, given his background at Air NZ and focus on economic growth. However, Luxon said he did not intend to give himself an extra portfolio because of the “turnaround” needed.

He said he preferred to be able to “roam” and keep an eye on ministers and government departments’ progress, so he could focus his attention where it was needed.

Luxon was also asked about an odd rumour circulating that he does not believe in dinosaurs and once vetoed an Air NZ safety video because of it. He does believe in dinosaurs.

Claire Trevett is the NZ Herald’s political editor, based at Parliament in Wellington. She started at the NZ Herald in 2003 and joined the Press Gallery team in 2007. She is a life member of the Parliamentary Press Gallery.