Australian officials fly in, fly out for Aukus talks

Defence Minister Judith Collins, Australian Defence Minister Richard Marles, Foreign Minister Winston Peters, Australian Foreign Minister Penny Wong earlier this month. Photo / Thomas Coughlan

Australia has made good on a promise by Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles to send officials to New Zealand for Aukus briefings, with the Defence Ministry confirming a visit took place “recently”.

Australian and New Zealand Defence and Foreign Affairs Ministers met last month, as the New Zealand Government openly floated association with the non-nuclear “pillar two” part of the agreement, which looks at sharing non-nuclear technology in areas such as cyber and aeronautics.

At that meeting, Marles said the Australian Government was “keen to ensure that New Zealand was abreast of where discussions had got to ... in relation to pillar two” and on that basis, he would send a team to brief New Zealand in the near future.

New Zealand Ministry of Defence deputy secretary Anton Youngman confirmed to the Herald that “Australian officials recently visited Wellington to brief New Zealand counterparts on pillar two of Aukus”.

“This was a background briefing for information only and not intended to address the issue of New Zealand joining pillar two.

“Officials will continue regular engagement with the Aukus partners, as we build our understanding of pillar two,” Youngman said.

Defence Minister Judith Collins’ office directed queries to the Ministry of Defence.

While the current Government appears keen to get in on pillar two as part of a wider diplomatic push towards deepening security ties with the United States, it appears any progress on that front is some way off.

Marles said at the meeting this month the three Aukus partners, Australia, the US and the United Kingdom were keen to work things out between themselves first.

“Since the beginning of Aukus, there has been two pillars. There has been a lot of focus on pillar one, which is Australia acquiring nuclear submarine capability jointly from the United States and the United Kingdom,” Marles said.

“Pillar two, which is really focused on the development of other advanced technologies has received interest from other countries to participate in that, particularly countries from Five Eyes,” he said, hinting Canada and New Zealand, the only two non-Aukus Five Eyes states, had expressed an interest.

He said the partners had wanted to see “runs on the board in relation to pillar two between the three countries, Australia the US and the UK” first. However, he said that “in the longer term, we’re open to the idea of pillar two being open to other countries who may be interested”.

In this country, Labour is less keen on backing the deal, with Foreign Affairs Spokesman David Parker telling the Herald he was “unconvinced” it offered New Zealand anything it did not already get through other avenues, such as Five Eyes.

Thomas Coughlan is Deputy Political Editor and covers politics from Parliament. He has worked for the Herald since 2021 and has worked in the press gallery since 2018.