Andrew Little says poll numbers were the deciding factor for him stepping down as Labour leader to make way for Dame Jacinda Ardern, as he faced questions over whether the Prime Minister’s poor polling reflects the need to refresh National’s leadership.
Little, previously Leader of the Opposition, senior Labour minister and now Wellington Mayor, joined Herald NOW’s Ryan Bridge this morning to discuss Resource Management Act Reform Minister Chris Bishop‘s proposal to scrap New Zealand’s 67 territorial authorities in favour of unitary-style ones.
During the interview, Bridge asked Little whether he thought Christopher Luxon was at the point that he was when he was replaced by Ardern six weeks out from the 2017 election amid dismal polling.
The latest Ipsos Issues Monitor Survey gave the coalition Government the worst Government performance score since the survey began in September 2017, with Labour edging out National on every key issue apart from law and order.
Little wouldn’t say whether he thought Luxon should step down, instead reflecting on his own dethronement eight years ago.
“I made the judgment call I did based on what was in front of me, and it was low poll numbers and they’d been falling,” Little said.
“What political leaders do at any time is up to them. Ultimately, it’s about keeping public confidence in your party.
“If you’re in Government or you aspire to [govern], you need that public support, and you’ve got to look to that.”
Bridge noted an “important part” of Little’s decline would have been the rise of “someone else obvious in the wings”, in his case, Ardern.
Little agreed, describing Ardern as having “a connection and a charisma that I didn’t have”.
“It was clear that people quite liked some of the policies we were talking about. They just didn’t connect with me. That’s just a reality I had to accept.”
While the decision hurt “at the time”, Little said he’d learnt the importance of self-knowledge and self-awareness through various leadership roles.
“[It’s] about understanding the impact you’re having on others. And if you’re having a negative impact, you’ve got to be alert to that and that’s going to limit what you can do.”
In light of what Bishop touted as “the most significant changes to local government since 1989″, Little said the move would mean more responsibilities for the mayor in a city like Wellington, which is currently governed by one regional council and four territorial authority councils.
“Look, it would add to the workload. I don’t know how that’s going to be managed, but no doubt we’ll get more detail as time goes on to see ... how exactly that would work.”
However, he welcomed the idea of reform, saying he believed “everybody wants greater simplification” of the current local governance structure.
“It’s a bit silly ... when you’ve got groups of councils close to each other such as we have in Wellington, with Wellington City Council, Lower Hutt, Upper Hutt, and Porirua, all with different rules when it comes to construction, when it comes to environmental issues.”
A recent Deloitte report commissioned by Wellington City Council on its processes suggested ratepayers could save $33.9 million from restructuring and cutting around 330 roles to improve efficiency and effectiveness.
Little said council leadership have already taken the report’s findings into account, placing a hiring freeze on vacant roles as they seek ways to mitigate the sizeable rates increase scheduled for next year.
“A whole bunch of roles that have been left vacant are not being filled and we will continue that kind of natural attrition,” he said.
“If we decide that there are functions we just no longer want to do, obviously we will manage that.
Tom Rose is an Auckland-based journalist who covers breaking news, specialising in lifestyle, entertainment and travel. He joined the Herald in 2023.
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