Treaty Principles Bill: American Indian tribal leader Chief Kirk Francis on indigenous sovereignty

Chief Kirk Francis of the Penobscot Indian Nation located in Maine - is in NZ attending the First Nations Symposium at Parliament. Photo / Alex Burton

An American Indian tribe leader has described New Zealand’s approaching public debate around the Treaty Principles Bill as “a scary conversation” and one that “never really worked out very well for indigenous people”.

Kirk Francis is the chief of the Penobscot Nation in Maine in the United States and president of United South and Eastern Tribes (USET), a group of 33 American Indian tribes.

He grew up in Maine, and like his Penobscot people, has deep ties to the river and land of his local area.

“Our connection to land is everything for the tribe. My tribe is a riverine people.

“We’ve been in the same ancestral land since time immemorial, and we have about 220 islands in the Penobscot River... about 250,000 acres (101,000 ha) makes up our territory and we govern all of that.

“We have about 20 departments, we run about 115 programmes, we have from healthcare to police, all of that, we have our own schools.”

Francis said the US constitution had a clause that recognised three sovereigns: the United States, individual states and Indian tribes.

Chief Kirk Francis speaking at the symposium. Photo / Adrian Heke

“How it works in the United States, is there is trust fiduciary of Congress to fund programmes and to allow tribes to administer those funds and work those programmes in a self-determining way.

“It’s been determined that this is not a race-based relationship, it’s really a political distinction between the First Peoples and the United States.

“A lot of people will try to drag the conversation into why did they get special treatment, why is this happening? It’s because it’s not race-based, and the Supreme Court has upheld that in the United States, and they say it’s about a distinct political group that has ties to the land, that are sovereign by fact.

“(This is a) colonised people that lost their culture, that lost all land and resources and at the end of the day have to recover from all that. In the United States, there was boarding schools, urban relocation, all kinds of things, health disparities, educational outcomes were terrible.

“We had a child welfare system that just came and took kids, and we never saw them again. It’s a lot to recover from and it’s a responsibility to accept that that’s happened (and) figure out the path forward and ensure it never happens again.”

Francis has been in New Zealand for the inaugural First Nations Symposium, held at Parliament and hosted by Ngāti Toa.

During the conference, he addressed a room of American Indian and Māori leaders by saying “despite the 6000 miles or so that separate us, I’ve already come to understand the many things we have in common and appreciate the similarities we share”.

Chief Kirk Francis (centre) with Te Ātiawa chair Kura Moeahu (left) and Helmut Modlik of Ngāti Toa Rangatira (right).

“The tribe has had its share of struggles so when I talk about the similarities we face, when I hear things like this is what the settlement means, or we’re going to re-look at the treaty, it’s really something we’re all too familiar with.”

Francis was referring to the Treaty Principles Bill. The bill, led by Act leader David Seymour, seeks to replace the many current treaty principles that have been defined by courts and other entities over several decades with three new ones determined by Parliament.

Seymour says the purpose of his bill was to provide certainty and clarity around the principles and to promote a national conversation about their place in our constitutional arrangements.

“Far from being a divisive document, the Treaty is a powerful guide for New Zealand’s future, establishing that all New Zealanders have the same rights and duties, and that the government has a duty to protect those rights.”

Seymour’s coalition partners, National and NZ First, have already said they will not support the bill past a first reading. The bill will, however, go to select committee for six months from November to May.

Francis told the conference typically when treaties were being looked at, “it was never a good thing”.

“It’s always to try and be more restrictive, it’s a sliver at a time. Then I hear these stories about one race, one people, one benefit, fairness for everyone.

“Well, that ignores a lot of different things. It ignores the fact that you’re a unique, distinct political people with your own governments ... you’re not a race of people, you’re a distinct culture.”

Speaking to the Herald, Francis said there was a settlement act in Maine and “the State of Maine is constantly interpreting that in a way that is not favourable to tribes – that also goes with our relationship with the Federal Government.

“That example is something we deal with in political cycles and that shouldn’t be a relationship that is based on the whim of whoever is in office, it needs to be more solidified than that.”

Francis said: “I’m not an expert in this, the treaty situation here, but I think anytime somebody wants to clarify something, it never really works out very well for the indigenous people, right?

“Because typically those are efforts to minimise the impact on people outside. I’m sure a lot of people on both sides will be weighing in on those issues. But (...) it’s a scary conversation.”

Julia Gabel is a Wellington-based political reporter. She joined the Herald in 2020 and has most recently focused on data journalism.