All Access. All in one subscription. From $2 per week
Subscribe now

All Access Weekly

From $2 per week
Pay just
$15.75
$2
per week ongoing
Subscribe now
BEST VALUE

All Access Annual

Pay just
$449
$49
per year ongoing
Subscribe now
Learn more
30
NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Herald NOW
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • All Blacks
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
  • Herald NOW
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Politics
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Herald NOW
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / New Zealand

Karam, cops at odds over marks on Bain thumb

Anna Leask
By Anna Leask
Senior Journalist - crime and justice·NZ Herald·
11 Jul, 2013 08:42 PM4 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

Joe Karam says the police have misled the public. Photo / Brett Phibbs
Joe Karam says the police have misled the public. Photo / Brett Phibbs

Joe Karam says the police have misled the public. Photo / Brett Phibbs

David Bain does not know whether to laugh or cry about so-called "new" evidence said to clear him of murdering his family but which went unnoticed 19 years, says supporter Joe Karam.

Mr Karam said he was "embarrassed" he had the information in front of him and never noticed it.

Last month, claims were made that parallel markings on Robin Bain's thumb were consistent with his having fired a gun on the morning of the killings, in June 1994.

The marks matched those made by gunpowder residue when loading the magazine of a rifle shortly after it had been fired.

Police rejected the claims. Assistant Commissioner Malcolm Burgess said Robin Bain's fingerprints showed patches on the thumb, suggesting cuts from "handyman" work.

All Access. All in one subscription. From $2 per week
Subscribe now

All Access Weekly

From $2 per week
Pay just
$15.75
$2
per week ongoing
Subscribe now
BEST VALUE

All Access Annual

Pay just
$449
$49
per year ongoing
Subscribe now
Learn more
30
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

"Marks on a photograph can always be open to several interpretations by experts ... Examination of the original photograph does not give any definitive indication of what the marks could be," he said.

But yesterday, Mr Karam said a second set of photographs of Robin Bain's thumb further supported the theory. That set of fingerprints was taken on June 21, 1994, the day after Robin Bain died, and were "perfect" prints with uninterrupted ridge lines.

The prints police had referred to were taken on June 22, 1994, after Robin Bain's body had been moved in and out of refrigeration in the mortuary.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Mr Karam said a fingerprint expert confirmed that the change in the body's temperature would have caused condensation on his hands.

When the second set of prints were taken, some ink would have been repelled by the presence of moisture, causing "blotchy white marks".

Yesterday, a fingerprint and forensic expert the Herald spoke to said the condensation theory was "possible".

But copies of fingerprints, such as those relied upon by Mr Karam, "leave a lot to be desired".

Discover more

New Zealand|crime

Police: 'Other possibilities'

27 Jun 05:57 AM
New Zealand|crime

Bain case: Police reject thumb theory

27 Jun 05:30 PM
New Zealand

Collins sent 'concerns' to Bain reviewer

28 Jun 05:30 PM
New Zealand|crime

Karam shows 'sooty marks'

11 Jul 06:35 AM

Mr Karam said David Bain was torn over the information.

"He doesn't know whether to laugh or cry ... he cries that evidence of his innocence has come up after being physically lost from his father's body."

Mr Karam said the police, in rejecting the theory and publicly releasing the second thumb print, had "blatantly misled" the public.

Last night, Mr Burgess said: "It would have been helpful if Mr [David] Bain's supporters raised these issues direct with police for clarification before launching them into the media with claims of wrongdoing or incompetence."

He said the fingerprints of Robin Bain taken on June 21, 1994, were taken by a detective, and a police fingerprint expert determined they were not of adequate quality.

The expert took two further sets of prints the next day.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Police yesterday said they would apply for access to all of the original prints, which were held by the court and not by police.

Mr Karam told Radio New Zealand this morning he was "surprised" police were were going to court.

"Because I'd be very surprised if the originals of these are in court. And if they are going to the court, I imagine the court will seek the approval of David Bain's legal team for the police to be uplifting exhibits of the court if they are there, and we'll find that out."

He said police were "being mischievous again, really".

"Because what they should actually acknowledge is that the fingerprint I released yesterday proves categorically that they are not cuts.

"It doesn't really matter what they find on these other ones afterwards, because the first ones - the rich detail, as I say, is uninterrupted. There is no damage to it."

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Opposing views

Joe Karam says:

The marks on Robin Bain's fingers cannot have been cuts because they were not present in the first set of fingerprints taken after he died. Police have misled the public by only releasing the second set of prints, which show the marks, deemed to be cuts.

Police say:

The second set of prints are accurate. The first set of prints was taken by a detective, the second by a fingerprint expert who determined the first set were not adequate. Police are applying to the court for the originals, which they will re-examine.

Save

    Share this article

Latest from New Zealand

New Zealand

Police get call to rubbish bin fire, find car also ablaze

New ZealandUpdated

Video shows man being slammed against stall during night market assault, goods flying

21 Jun 11:31 PM
New Zealand

Are you paying too much for parking?

21 Jun 11:28 PM

Jono and Ben brew up a tea-fuelled adventure in Sri Lanka

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Recommended for you
SH2 bridge to close for repairs for six days during school holidays
Bay of Plenty Times

SH2 bridge to close for repairs for six days during school holidays

22 Jun 12:00 AM
Make a mad dash for this hearty beef goulash
Viva - Food & Drink

Make a mad dash for this hearty beef goulash

22 Jun 12:00 AM
US carried out ‘very successful attack’ on three Iran nuclear sites - Trump
World

US carried out ‘very successful attack’ on three Iran nuclear sites - Trump

21 Jun 11:59 PM
Dame Theresa Gattung sells premium matchmaking business
Business

Dame Theresa Gattung sells premium matchmaking business

21 Jun 11:40 PM
Video shows man being slammed against stall during night market assault, goods flying
New Zealand

Video shows man being slammed against stall during night market assault, goods flying

21 Jun 11:31 PM

Latest from New Zealand

Police get call to rubbish bin fire, find car also ablaze

Police get call to rubbish bin fire, find car also ablaze

A social media user posted videos of boy racers doing burnouts in Lower Hutt, followed by a car on its roof engulfed in flames. Video / Supplied

Video shows man being slammed against stall during night market assault, goods flying

Video shows man being slammed against stall during night market assault, goods flying

21 Jun 11:31 PM
Are you paying too much for parking?

Are you paying too much for parking?

21 Jun 11:28 PM
'Disrespectful': Police boss' angry memo after 50 staff caught snooping into slain cop

'Disrespectful': Police boss' angry memo after 50 staff caught snooping into slain cop

21 Jun 11:00 PM
Help for those helping hardest-hit
sponsored

Help for those helping hardest-hit

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
All Access. All in one subscription. From $2 per week
Subscribe now

All Access Weekly

From $2 per week
Pay just
$15.75
$2
per week ongoing
Subscribe now
BEST VALUE

All Access Annual

Pay just
$449
$49
per year ongoing
Subscribe now
Learn more
30
TOP
search by queryly Advanced Search