NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather forecasts

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
    • The Great NZ Road Trip
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
    • Cooking the Books
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • What the Actual
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / Crime

Your say: Catholic Church seeks absolute control

Whanganui Chronicle
11 Mar, 2018 04:53 AM4 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

Ken Orr's casuistry (Letters, February 24) must be called to account.

At the founding of parliamentary democracy, our founders brought about separation of church and state by refusing to have an "established" church.

The nonsense of my "seeking to to restrict freedom of speech" sidesteps the issue of the responsible use of free speech.

Orr's deliberate fudging and mis-statement of medical/scientific material in relation to reproduction was, and is, irresponsible.

It is a propagandist attempt to bend the public mind away from reasoned debate.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

His ironic crocodile tears on freedom of speech and democracy are seen for what it is when we remember that the Catholic Church has denied its own members freedom of speech, claimed absolute control over all matters of belief - that is, absolute thought control - and sought alliance with absolute rulers from Constantine to Hitler and Mussolini.

Hence the horrors of "heresy", the "trials" of the Inquisition, and the wars of religion as modern minds challenged centuries of misrule.

They hate democracy: they dislike and distrust modern knowledge, let alone having to share and justify their positions in the face of reason.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

By claiming, without proof, the inclusion of "soul" at conception, they accelerate the initial stages of uterine growth to "human" and claim that any abortion is "murder". This is, of course, intended to cause guilt, shame and horror at described results which could only occur in much later abortions.

The basic trick here is not to discuss the medico-legal division of pregnancy into trimesters.

The effect is dealt with by Stephen Pinker thus: "The vast majority of abortions are carried out well before the milestone of having a functioning brain, and thus are safely conceptualised according to [the understanding of human life as involving signs of consciousness] as fundamentally different from infanticide and other forms of violence."

Orr's fudged description of inter-uterine development ignores that science and cottage wisdom concur in placing the earliest signs of consciousness at "quickening" (the household term), and at "reverberating neural activity between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex" at around 26 weeks of gestational age (the scientific description) - see Pinker, The Better Angels of Our Nature, 2011.

Geneticists have isolated more than 130 gene-caused diseases that can be diagnosed very early in pregnancy. Foetal chromosome abnormalities thus detected can make very real differences as to the reasonable viability of a continued pregnancy. An informed choice on the finding seems not unreasonable.

So I am not "pro-abortion" - that throwaway is to shove me among the villains. I do try to approach issues on the basis of modern and developing knowledge, of what will improve the well-being of the human condition.

That seems to me to include the informed choice of those who literally bear the brunt of their pregnancy (whether the outcome of child rape, undue haste or whatever) and to exclude the opinions of those driven by doctrines on less than reasonable premises, and a seeming lack of compassion.

RUSS HAY, Whanganui

A sense of dread

I was misquoted in the Chronicle article (February 21) - "Residents upset by new social housing".

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

I began by referring to comments such as "We need lots of housing, but not near us" and "We need a new prison, but not right here" when people hear about building plans.

Those statements have been taken out of context.

People from the two streets concerned were adamant in their view that the construction of seven small, virtually identical two-bedroom houses was most unsuited to this community.

What is certain is that the value of neighbouring properties in Poynter Place and Alma Rd will drop. Homeowners have invested heavily in building and buying these houses on the assumption they were moving into a safe and pleasant environment.

Poynter Place is already overcrowded, and it's often difficult to drive down the street to our homes. Seven or more extra cars will make it even more difficult.

Residents are justifiably upset that emergency social housing is planned. We see no problem in the provision of two new houses in Grey St where they will be sited behind existing state houses.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

It's not going to work here in Poynter Place - there is evidence cluster housing has the potential to cause severe social disruption. Check out the community chaos from the erection of cluster housing in the Christchurch suburbs Phillipstown and Halswell - we dread similar problems will result in Poynter Place and Alma Rd.

LINDSAY and DIANE STOCKBRIDGE, Whanganui

Breath of fresh air

Kate Stewart's article "Convicting before the law says guilty" was a breath of fresh air.

Hold on to her. It is folk like her who give strength and honesty to help a community grow, building on what is valuable.

F R HALPIN, Gonville

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Save

    Share this article

Latest from Crime

Crime

German tourist stabbed by drunk man who couldn't find his car keys

08 May 08:00 AM
Crime

'Every day I hear his music': Family mourn hip-hop artist as killer driver jailed

08 May 07:00 AM
Crime

'The truth and you are strangers': Judge's verdict on dishonest offender

08 May 06:17 AM

One tiny baby’s fight to survive

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from Crime

German tourist stabbed by drunk man who couldn't find his car keys

German tourist stabbed by drunk man who couldn't find his car keys

08 May 08:00 AM

Kenneth Green swung a knife 35 times, stabbing the victim he had been drinking with twice.

'Every day I hear his music': Family mourn hip-hop artist as killer driver jailed

'Every day I hear his music': Family mourn hip-hop artist as killer driver jailed

08 May 07:00 AM
'The truth and you are strangers': Judge's verdict on dishonest offender

'The truth and you are strangers': Judge's verdict on dishonest offender

08 May 06:17 AM
Premium
Pushpay insider trader loses latest bid for suppression

Pushpay insider trader loses latest bid for suppression

08 May 06:16 AM
Connected workers are safer workers 
sponsored

Connected workers are safer workers 

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • What the Actual
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven CarGuide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP