Carmel Sepuloni: ‘I don’t want to be the sookie bubba deputy PM’

New Deputy Prime Minister Carmel Sepuloni: "It’s certainly taken a bit to get my head around it all". Photo: Tony Nyberg.

Our first Pasifika deputy prime minister credits her devoted husband and the rest of her ‘village’ for allowing her to pursue her political ambitions.

It’s been two weeks since Carmel Sepuloni was made Aotearoa’s new deputy prime minister and in that time, the proud Pasifika politician has shed her fair share of tears.

There’s the magnitude of what it means to be the first ever person of Pacific descent to hold the role, the outpouring of love and support from her community, not to mention the sense of privilege that comes with such a position.

It’s little wonder, perhaps, that emotions have been close to the surface.

“Oh, it’s certainly taken a bit to get my head around it all,” she says with a smile, as she welcomes Woman’s Day into the West Auckland home she shares with her husband Daren Kamali and their blended whānau.

“There have been a few tears cried this week, but I don’t want to be the sookie bubba deputy prime minister, so I’m going to try to pull back on that!”

Joining her at our photoshoot is Carmel’s biggest supporter, her husband of four years, poet and musician Daren, 47.

Together they raise their four sons, aged 24, 16, 12 and 9, and the couple recently became grandparents, with the arrival of their first moko.

“We’re now Nan C and Papa D,” says Carmel proudly. “And I can’t explain how amazing it is to be a grandparent. It’s a totally different love to that of a parent.”

Carmel, 45, who is of Samoan, Tongan and Pākehā descent, might have signed up for one of the biggest jobs in the country, but it’s clear that family comes first.

She credits her “village” for allowing her to pursue her political ambitions, pointing to intergenerational living as a key factor in making her and Daren’s home life work.

Carmel’s dad, who migrated from Samoa in the 1960s, lives with them, and Daren’s Fijian family are all nearby and hugely involved in the family’s lives.

Carmel and her husband Daren Kamali. Photo / Tony Nyberg.

Their support will be even more vital now as Carmel embarks on the deputy prime minister role, with the passionate politician – who commutes between Wellington and Auckland during the week – readying herself for the heavier workload, more time away and greater responsibility.

“The love for our children surpasses anything else, but the reality is, I’m a different kind of mother because I can’t be there every day,” says Carmen, who grew up in Waitara, Taranaki.

“I really believe this is the most important job that I’ll do for my children and for my grandchildren. It’s a village of people who are raising our children and I’ll always be so grateful for that.”

She’s also grateful for Daren’s unwavering support. Since the moment they fell in love seven years ago, he’s been there for her as she climbed the political ladder.

Carmel might have spent many years as a solo mum, but having Daren by her side makes life so much better, she says.

The pair first met in 2007, when a mutual friend invited her to a mate’s house for a party.

Woman's Day.

“It was Daren and his mother and aunties, and they were all sitting around having kava and chicken curry. It wasn’t the party I’d signed up to! But they were all so lovely and I remember leaving thinking, ‘What a nice man’.”

While the timing wasn’t right back then, the pair continued to cross paths and it was clear there was “a little bit of interest there for both of us”.

Fast forward to 2016 when the two again bumped into each other and Daren suggested they go out on a date. Carmel, however, was in a relationship.

“What he didn’t know though was that the relationship was ending and once it did, I contacted him and asked if he still wanted to go out. We’ve been together pretty much ever since.”

A year later, Daren proposed during a New Year’s Eve party in his mum’s garage and the pair were married soon after in a romantic ceremony in Fiji.

Carmel Sepuloni and her husband Daren on their wedding day. Photo / Woman's Day

Carmel says it’s Daren’s creativity she loves the most.

“I‘ve always been drawn to creative people – the way they think, the work they create. He has a really strong, close family and I love that about him.”

As for Daren, he says he always knew Carmel was different.

“She’s an extraordinary woman. She will do anything for those in need, which includes me and the family, even when she’s busy. She always finds the time for us and everyone around her.”

This generosity of time was plain to see during Auckland’s recent devastating floods, when Carmel mucked in late into the night at an evacuation centre in her Kelston electorate.

She says it was her strong sense of social justice that first drew her into politics.

While Carmel understands there is greater interest in her now, she’s nervous about sharing too much of her private life. Yes, she chose politics, but her family did not and she’s determined to safeguard them from the often bruising reality of public life.

Carmel says she’s still figuring out how to prepare her children for her more high-profile role, but not sharing their names or photos is the first step.

“I am not going to pretend I have had anywhere near the extent of social media attacks that [former PM ] Jacinda Ardern has had, but social media is our reality and it can be really nasty. We don’t want our kids to be on the receiving end of some of the horrible things that can be said.

Previous New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern hugs incoming Deputy Prime Minister Carmel Sepuloni as she leaves Parliament for the last time. Photo / Getty Images

“We need to prepare them for not only what they might hear through social media, but for if strangers approach them and say things that are uncomfortable or offensive.”

She urges people to call out online bullying or trolling. “We need to hold each other to account as a society. When someone is sitting behind their keyboard and writing something, they need to know their families, their communities, everyone around them, is really public and loud about how that’s not OK.”

Carmel, a longtime friend of the former PM, says while she was sad about Jacinda’s decision to resign, she also breathed a sigh of relief for her good mate and colleague.

“She’s had to deal with so much as prime minister in terms of the unexpected challenges that have come her way. She’s made such a huge difference, but she’s still only human and I certainly was thinking, ‘You do you, girl, you deserve it. Go lie on a beach – do what you want!’”

While Carmel’s family is fizzing about her job as deputy to new prime minister Chris Hipkins, she admits she thought long and hard before accepting the position.

Chris Hipkins, New Zealand's incoming prime minister, and Carmel Sepuloni, New Zealand's incoming deputy prime minister, arrive for a news conference at the Beehive. Photo / Getty Images

She recalls returning from the Labour party caucus meeting in Napier to discuss the idea with Daren.

“We just cried together,” she says.“He talked about how amazing this opportunity is for us, our family and our whole community. Daren reiterated his absolute commitment to supporting me and my role, and supporting our family so I can get on and do this. He’s very proud.”

The pair also sat down with outgoing deputy PM Grant Robertson and his husband Alf Kaiwai to discuss the impact taking the role might have on the family.

“The expectations for travel, how much more I will be away from home, the things he was expected to cover for the PM and strategies for managing all of that,” explains Carmel.

“I wanted to know more about the job, but also what it’s meant for his family and how he’s managed the pressures. We had a full and frank conversation.”

While she ‘s held multiple ministerial portfolios (she’s still Minister for Social Development and Employment, and Arts, Culture and Heritage) and has long been seen as one of Labour’s safest pair of hands, the deputy PM role is a step up – and one she feels she’s been preparing for her entire life.

“It’s a massive deal for the whole Pacific community. We have had such a journey through our migration over here... we came here and worked very hard jobs, experienced the struggle, and always front of mind was our children having a better life. So in many ways, it’s symbolic of the journey.”

Deputy PM Carmel Sepuloni, Governor-General Dame Cindy Kiro and PM Chris Hipkins, during a swearing-in ceremony at Government House. Photo / Getty Images

Carmel has faced racism at many points throughout her life.

“Any brown person will have experienced racism at some point in their lives; it’s inevitable,” she says.

“I have stuck to the approach where I am going to put my head down and remain focused on what I’m here doing. Everything else is what I consider ‘noise’. Sometimes you just need to shut the noise out because you don’t want it to stop you from getting on and doing the work that needs to be done.”

She wants her success to serve as inspiration for the next generation.

“It really is a signal we can be at the top decision-making tables and that our contribution is valued. Our young people can aspire to be in these positions.”

Carmel hopes young brown girls will see her and know that they too can get to wherever they want to be.

“I hope it shows them you don’t have to come from a wealthy family or a family of status. That everyone – with a little bit of hard work and perhaps some luck along the way, and the right people on that journey – can get there.”