NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Herald NOW
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
  • Herald NOW
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Politics
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Herald NOW
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / Entertainment

Why Spotify's Joe Rogan problem isn't going away

By Kevin Roose
New York Times·
31 Jan, 2022 08:12 PM7 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

    Reminder, this is a Premium article and requires a subscription to read.

Neil Young, left, pulled his music from Spotify over podcaster Joe Rogan's controversial Covid content. Photos / Getty Images

Neil Young, left, pulled his music from Spotify over podcaster Joe Rogan's controversial Covid content. Photos / Getty Images

Opinion

OPINION:

Stop me if you've heard this one before:

A popular internet personality, beloved by millions for his irreverent, anti-establishment commentary, becomes the subject of a heated backlash after critics accuse him of promoting dangerous misinformation.

The controversy engulfs the creator's biggest platform, which has rules prohibiting dangerous misinformation and now faces pressure to enforce them against one of its highest-profile users.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Hoping to ride out the storm, the platform's CEO publishes a blog post about the importance of free speech, declining to punish the rule-breaker but promising to introduce new features that will promote higher-quality information.

Still, the backlash intensifies. Civil rights groups organise a boycott. Advertisers pull their campaigns. A hashtag trends. The platform's employees threaten to walk out. Days later, the CEO is forced to choose between barring a popular creator — and face the fury of his fans — or being seen as a hypocrite and an enabler of dangerous behaviour.

Joni Mitchell, pictured, and popular podcaster Brené Brown have also pulled their content from Spotify. Picture / AP
Joni Mitchell, pictured, and popular podcaster Brené Brown have also pulled their content from Spotify. Picture / AP

If this scenario sounds familiar, it's because a version of it has occurred on every major internet media platform over the last half decade. Facebook and Alex Jones, Twitter and Donald Trump, YouTube and PewDiePie, Netflix and Dave Chappelle: every major platform has found itself trapped, at some point, between this particular rock and a hard place.

Now, it's Spotify's turn. The audio giant has faced calls for weeks to take action against Joe Rogan, the mega-popular podcast host, after Rogan was accused of promoting Covid-19 misinformation on his show, including hosting a guest who had been barred by Twitter for spreading false information about Covid vaccines.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

In January, a group of hundreds of medical experts urged Spotify to crack down on Covid misinformation, saying that Rogan had a "concerning history" of promoting falsehoods about the virus.

So far, the backlash cycle is hitting most of the usual notes. Critics have compared snippets of Rogan's interviews with Spotify's stated rules, which prohibit material "that promotes dangerous false or dangerous deceptive content about Covid-19".

Discover more

Royals

Harry and Meghan wade into Spotify 'misinformation' drama

30 Jan 07:57 PM
Entertainment

Music icon joins Neil Young in cutting ties with Spotify

29 Jan 06:55 AM
Entertainment

Emotional reason behind Neil Young's Spotify ultimatum

28 Jan 08:59 PM
New Zealand

Leaders condemn anti-vax narrative invoking Holocaust

28 Jan 04:05 AM

Two folk-rock legends, Neil Young and Joni Mitchell, led the boycott, pulling their catalogues from Spotify last week in protest of the platform's decision to support Rogan. Brené Brown, another popular host, soon followed, saying she would not release new episodes of her Spotify-exclusive podcast "until further notice".

Daniel Ek, Spotify's CEO, published the requisite blog post on Sunday, defending the company's commitment to free expression and saying that "it is important to me that we don't take on the position of being content censor". And while Spotify declined to take action against Rogan, it committed to putting advisory warnings on podcast episodes about Covid-19, and directing listeners to a hub filled with authoritative health information.

As a viral tweet last week put it: "Taylor Swift could end Joe Rogan with a single tweet at Spotify." Photo / Getty Images
As a viral tweet last week put it: "Taylor Swift could end Joe Rogan with a single tweet at Spotify." Photo / Getty Images

Despite its surface similarities, Rogan's Spotify standoff is different from most other clashes between creators and tech platforms in a few key ways.

For one, Spotify isn't merely one of many apps that distribute Rogan's podcast. The streaming service paid more than US$100 million for exclusive rights to The Joe Rogan Experience in 2020, making him the headline act for its growing podcast division. Critics say that deal, along with the aggressive way Spotify has promoted Rogan's show inside its app, gives the company more responsibility for his show than others it carries.

Another difference is who wields the leverage in this conflict. YouTube, Twitter and Facebook are ad-supported businesses; if advertisers disagree with moderation decisions, they can threaten to inflict financial damage by pulling their campaigns. (Whether these boycotts actually accomplish anything is another question.)

Spotify, by contrast, makes most of its money from subscriptions, so it's unlikely to suffer financially from its handling of Rogan unless there's a wave of account cancellations. And given how few Netflix subscribers appear to have cancelled their subscriptions during last year's dust-up with Chappelle, Spotify can probably breathe easy on this front for now.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

But Spotify has a different constituency to worry about: stars. A leading music streaming service like Spotify needs to have popular hits in its library, which means that, in theory, musicians with enough firepower could force change simply by threatening to remove their albums. (As a viral tweet last week put it: "Taylor Swift could end Joe Rogan with a single tweet at Spotify.")

In practice, it's a bit more complicated than that, in part because record labels, not musicians, generally control streaming rights. But it's still possible that if Young and Mitchell's moves inspire more top musicians and/or labels to pull their songs from Spotify, it could become a real business risk for the company.

Rogan yesterday posted a 10-minute Instagram video apologising for his "out of control" show and pledging to invite more mainstream experts on to discuss the pandemic. Photo / Getty Images
Rogan yesterday posted a 10-minute Instagram video apologising for his "out of control" show and pledging to invite more mainstream experts on to discuss the pandemic. Photo / Getty Images

A third difference is Rogan himself. Unlike Jones and other firebrands, he is primarily an interviewer, and most of the uproar has been in response to things his guests have said. That gives him a more plausible excuse for entertaining fringe views, although critics have pointed out that Rogan's own statements about Covid-19 have also been full of dubious information.

So, how will Rogan's backlash cycle end? It's hard to say.

One possibility is that it will end like those of Jones and Trump, whose behaviour was so outrageous (and who continued to flagrantly violate the rule even after being called out) that Twitter and Facebook had no real choice but to shut them down permanently.

Rogan could double down on Covid misinformation, daring Spotify to de-platform him and casting himself as a "victim of the woke mob", censored for speaking too many uncomfortable truths. He could wriggle out of his Spotify deal and head back to YouTube and to the other platforms that used to carry his show. (He could even go to a right-wing social network like Gettr or Parler, but I'm guessing he would prefer an audience.)

Or he could do what PewDiePie, the popular YouTube creator whose real name is Felix Kjellberg, did after he was accused of making antisemitic comments. After briefly becoming a hero to right-wing reactionaries, Kjellberg apologised for his behaviour, cleaned up his channel and eventually worked his way back into the platform's good graces.

Rogan could quietly capitulate, protecting his Spotify deal and backing away from the Covid-sceptical fringe in a way that doesn't cost him his reputation as an anti-establishment contrarian. (This outcome looked like the likeliest one on Sunday night, when Rogan posted a 10-minute Instagram video apologising for his "out of control" show and pledging to invite more mainstream experts on to discuss the pandemic.)

A third option is that the whole controversy could simply fizzle out, like last year's imbroglio with Chappelle and Netflix, which began after the comedian was accused of making transphobic remarks during a special and ended, days later, with no real consequences for anyone. But this outcome doesn't seem likely, given that boycotts have already begun and appear to be snowballing.

The relationship between media personalities and the networks that air their work has always been fraught. But it has gotten messier in recent years, as growth-hungry tech companies have begun to pay top stars directly for their content. These deals have made them more like the radio and TV stations of old — picking popular acts, paying handsomely for their work, assuming greater responsibility for their output — and less like the neutral platforms they once claimed to be.

The relationships between the companies and their users is changing, too. Users of these services have learned, by observing dozens of backlash cycles over the past several years, that a sufficient amount of pressure can get a tech company to do almost anything. They understand that the companies' rules are fuzzy and improvisational, and that what CEOs mostly want — no matter what high-minded principles they profess to hold — is for people to stop yelling at them. They also know that if a company won't take action based on listener complaints alone, there are other ways to turn up the heat.

Spotify may think it has gotten past the worst of the Rogan backlash. But we know from recent history that what looks like the end of a content moderation controversy is often just the warm-up act.

This article originally appeared in The New York Times.


Written by: Kevin Roose
© 2022 THE NEW YORK TIMES

Save

    Share this article

    Reminder, this is a Premium article and requires a subscription to read.

Latest from Entertainment

Entertainment

‘I’ve been put up on the shelf’: Temuera Morrison laments Star Wars limbo

17 Jun 03:16 AM
Entertainment

Justin Bieber reveals 'broken' state, admits to anger issues

17 Jun 01:08 AM
Entertainment

Doctor to plead guilty in Matthew Perry drug case, faces 40 years

16 Jun 11:30 PM

Sponsored: Embrace the senses

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from Entertainment

‘I’ve been put up on the shelf’: Temuera Morrison laments Star Wars limbo

‘I’ve been put up on the shelf’: Temuera Morrison laments Star Wars limbo

17 Jun 03:16 AM

The Kiwi actor has been part of the Star Wars universe for more than 20 years.

Justin Bieber reveals 'broken' state, admits to anger issues

Justin Bieber reveals 'broken' state, admits to anger issues

17 Jun 01:08 AM
Doctor to plead guilty in Matthew Perry drug case, faces 40 years

Doctor to plead guilty in Matthew Perry drug case, faces 40 years

16 Jun 11:30 PM
Why 'Prime Minister' is a must-watch for political enthusiasts

Why 'Prime Minister' is a must-watch for political enthusiasts

16 Jun 06:00 PM
Help for those helping hardest-hit
sponsored

Help for those helping hardest-hit

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP