NZ Herald
  • Home
  • Latest news
  • Herald NOW
  • Video
  • New Zealand
  • Sport
  • World
  • Business
  • Entertainment
  • Podcasts
  • Quizzes
  • Opinion
  • Lifestyle
  • Travel
  • Viva
  • Weather

Subscriptions

  • Herald Premium
  • Viva Premium
  • The Listener
  • BusinessDesk

Sections

  • Latest news
  • New Zealand
    • All New Zealand
    • Crime
    • Politics
    • Education
    • Open Justice
    • Scam Update
  • Herald NOW
  • On The Up
  • World
    • All World
    • Australia
    • Asia
    • UK
    • United States
    • Middle East
    • Europe
    • Pacific
  • Business
    • All Business
    • MarketsSharesCurrencyCommoditiesStock TakesCrypto
    • Markets with Madison
    • Media Insider
    • Business analysis
    • Personal financeKiwiSaverInterest ratesTaxInvestment
    • EconomyInflationGDPOfficial cash rateEmployment
    • Small business
    • Business reportsMood of the BoardroomProject AucklandSustainable business and financeCapital markets reportAgribusiness reportInfrastructure reportDynamic business
    • Deloitte Top 200 Awards
    • CompaniesAged CareAgribusinessAirlinesBanking and financeConstructionEnergyFreight and logisticsHealthcareManufacturingMedia and MarketingRetailTelecommunicationsTourism
  • Opinion
    • All Opinion
    • Analysis
    • Editorials
    • Business analysis
    • Premium opinion
    • Letters to the editor
  • Politics
  • Sport
    • All Sport
    • OlympicsParalympics
    • RugbySuper RugbyNPCAll BlacksBlack FernsRugby sevensSchool rugby
    • CricketBlack CapsWhite Ferns
    • Racing
    • NetballSilver Ferns
    • LeagueWarriorsNRL
    • FootballWellington PhoenixAuckland FCAll WhitesFootball FernsEnglish Premier League
    • GolfNZ Open
    • MotorsportFormula 1
    • Boxing
    • UFC
    • BasketballNBABreakersTall BlacksTall Ferns
    • Tennis
    • Cycling
    • Athletics
    • SailingAmerica's CupSailGP
    • Rowing
  • Lifestyle
    • All Lifestyle
    • Viva - Food, fashion & beauty
    • Society Insider
    • Royals
    • Sex & relationships
    • Food & drinkRecipesRecipe collectionsRestaurant reviewsRestaurant bookings
    • Health & wellbeing
    • Fashion & beauty
    • Pets & animals
    • The Selection - Shop the trendsShop fashionShop beautyShop entertainmentShop giftsShop home & living
    • Milford's Investing Place
  • Entertainment
    • All Entertainment
    • TV
    • MoviesMovie reviews
    • MusicMusic reviews
    • BooksBook reviews
    • Culture
    • ReviewsBook reviewsMovie reviewsMusic reviewsRestaurant reviews
  • Travel
    • All Travel
    • News
    • New ZealandNorthlandAucklandWellingtonCanterburyOtago / QueenstownNelson-TasmanBest NZ beaches
    • International travelAustraliaPacific IslandsEuropeUKUSAAfricaAsia
    • Rail holidays
    • Cruise holidays
    • Ski holidays
    • Luxury travel
    • Adventure travel
  • Kāhu Māori news
  • Environment
    • All Environment
    • Our Green Future
  • Talanoa Pacific news
  • Property
    • All Property
    • Property Insider
    • Interest rates tracker
    • Residential property listings
    • Commercial property listings
  • Health
  • Technology
    • All Technology
    • AI
    • Social media
  • Rural
    • All Rural
    • Dairy farming
    • Sheep & beef farming
    • Horticulture
    • Animal health
    • Rural business
    • Rural life
    • Rural technology
    • Opinion
    • Audio & podcasts
  • Weather forecasts
    • All Weather forecasts
    • Kaitaia
    • Whangārei
    • Dargaville
    • Auckland
    • Thames
    • Tauranga
    • Hamilton
    • Whakatāne
    • Rotorua
    • Tokoroa
    • Te Kuiti
    • Taumaranui
    • Taupō
    • Gisborne
    • New Plymouth
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Dannevirke
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Levin
    • Paraparaumu
    • Masterton
    • Wellington
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Blenheim
    • Westport
    • Reefton
    • Kaikōura
    • Greymouth
    • Hokitika
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
    • Wānaka
    • Oamaru
    • Queenstown
    • Dunedin
    • Gore
    • Invercargill
  • Meet the journalists
  • Promotions & competitions
  • OneRoof property listings
  • Driven car news

Puzzles & Quizzes

  • Puzzles
    • All Puzzles
    • Sudoku
    • Code Cracker
    • Crosswords
    • Cryptic crossword
    • Wordsearch
  • Quizzes
    • All Quizzes
    • Morning quiz
    • Afternoon quiz
    • Sports quiz

Regions

  • Northland
    • All Northland
    • Far North
    • Kaitaia
    • Kerikeri
    • Kaikohe
    • Bay of Islands
    • Whangarei
    • Dargaville
    • Kaipara
    • Mangawhai
  • Auckland
  • Waikato
    • All Waikato
    • Hamilton
    • Coromandel & Hauraki
    • Matamata & Piako
    • Cambridge
    • Te Awamutu
    • Tokoroa & South Waikato
    • Taupō & Tūrangi
  • Bay of Plenty
    • All Bay of Plenty
    • Katikati
    • Tauranga
    • Mount Maunganui
    • Pāpāmoa
    • Te Puke
    • Whakatāne
  • Rotorua
  • Hawke's Bay
    • All Hawke's Bay
    • Napier
    • Hastings
    • Havelock North
    • Central Hawke's Bay
    • Wairoa
  • Taranaki
    • All Taranaki
    • Stratford
    • New Plymouth
    • Hāwera
  • Manawatū - Whanganui
    • All Manawatū - Whanganui
    • Whanganui
    • Palmerston North
    • Manawatū
    • Tararua
    • Horowhenua
  • Wellington
    • All Wellington
    • Kapiti
    • Wairarapa
    • Upper Hutt
    • Lower Hutt
  • Nelson & Tasman
    • All Nelson & Tasman
    • Motueka
    • Nelson
    • Tasman
  • Marlborough
  • West Coast
  • Canterbury
    • All Canterbury
    • Kaikōura
    • Christchurch
    • Ashburton
    • Timaru
  • Otago
    • All Otago
    • Oamaru
    • Dunedin
    • Balclutha
    • Alexandra
    • Queenstown
    • Wanaka
  • Southland
    • All Southland
    • Invercargill
    • Gore
    • Stewart Island
  • Gisborne

Media

  • Video
    • All Video
    • NZ news video
    • Herald NOW
    • Business news video
    • Politics news video
    • Sport video
    • World news video
    • Lifestyle video
    • Entertainment video
    • Travel video
    • Markets with Madison
    • Kea Kids news
  • Podcasts
    • All Podcasts
    • The Front Page
    • On the Tiles
    • Ask me Anything
    • The Little Things
  • Cartoons
  • Photo galleries
  • Today's Paper - E-editions
  • Photo sales
  • Classifieds

NZME Network

  • Advertise with NZME
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • BusinessDesk
  • Newstalk ZB
  • Sunlive
  • ZM
  • The Hits
  • Coast
  • Radio Hauraki
  • The Alternative Commentary Collective
  • Gold
  • Flava
  • iHeart Radio
  • Hokonui
  • Radio Wanaka
  • iHeartCountry New Zealand
  • Restaurant Hub
  • NZME Events

SubscribeSign In
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Home / Entertainment

Why Bert and Ernie's sexuality matters to LGBTQ people

By Nora Reed
Washington Post·
20 Sep, 2018 09:45 PM5 mins to read

Subscribe to listen

Access to Herald Premium articles require a Premium subscription. Subscribe now to listen.
Already a subscriber?  Sign in here

Listening to articles is free for open-access content—explore other articles or learn more about text-to-speech.
‌
Save

    Share this article

Sesame Street has maintained that Bert and Ernie were merely "created to be best friends." Photo / Getty Images

Sesame Street has maintained that Bert and Ernie were merely "created to be best friends." Photo / Getty Images

On Sunday, the gay online publication Queerty released an interview with longtime "Sesame Street" writer Mark Saltzman that touched on the relationship between popular characters Bert and Ernie. Asked whether he'd thought of them "as a gay couple," Saltzman responded, "I always felt that without a huge agenda, when I was writing Bert & Ernie, they were. I didn't have any other way to contextualise them."

In the wake of this admission, the internet went wild with the "confirmation" that the cohabiting Muppets are, as so many of us have always suspected, queer.

On Tuesday, the official Sesame Street Twitter account posted that Bert and Ernie were merely "created to be best friends." Frank Oz, their creator, also addressed it, this time with a dismissive shrug.

"They're not, of course," Oz wrote. "But why that question? Does it really matter? Why the need to define people as only gay?"

Queer people have been hearing these questions for our entire lives, especially when we seek images of ourselves in the media we consume. We hear them most often when we zero in on characters who aren't explicitly queer, and - for the record - we often zero in on characters who aren't explicitly queer because very few characters are that way: What would it add if we learned that Xena is bisexual or Dumbledore is gay in the actual text of their respective stories? Why do we need to know that Korra and Asami of "The Legend of Korra," or Ruby and Sapphire of "Steven Universe," or Princess Bubblegum and Marceline of "Adventure Time" are romantic couples, not just platonic friends? If there's more to this character than their sexual orientation, why should we bother correcting the assumption that they're hetero?

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

The answer is, of course, that it's affirming to see people who are like you in the fiction you read and watch. Most of the exposure that kids get to queerness comes in the form of the slurs they're called on the playground. Whether you're figuring out that you're queer at the age of 4 or 14, that's pretty depressing. When you're desperate for something more positive, sometimes you have to remake the world in your own image, and that often means telling yourself stories about the stories others tell, the ones that really do bring you pleasure and delight.

If you're straight, Saltzman's assertion that he contextualised Bert and Ernie as a queer couple might not have meant much to you. But think about the thing he says after, that his own bond with his late partner was a "Bert & Ernie relationship." For some queer people, statements like that can be a friendly "hello" in an otherwise alienating world; being able to see people like you in loving, positive relationships is a balm against the sinking feeling that comes over you every time someone makes a joke about AIDS where you can hear it. It's easy to say that sexual and romantic orientation don't matter when you already see examples of people like you everywhere. But when you're from an underrepresented group, it can be a huge boost to see people like you living happy lives.

Consider one of the most famous queer readings of pop culture. In his 1954 book "Seduction of the Innocent," the psychiatrist Fredric Wertham notoriously referred to Batman and Robin as "a wish dream of two homosexuals living together." Describing a therapy session with a "young homosexual" in his care, Wertham writes, "When he was eight this boy had realized from fantasies about comic book pictures that he was aroused by men." Wertham seems to believe the stories pushed the boy toward desires he otherwise wouldn't have felt. It's clear from his own descriptions, however, that his patient was merely responding affirmatively to images that were otherwise inaccessible in his cultural milieu, imprinting the things he already wanted over images in the comics he loved. With their help, he found a kind of relief, maybe even the possibility of peace.

Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Queer people have been similarly seeing themselves in Bert and Ernie for decades; Saltzman was just someone who was able to put a bit of his heart in what was really on screen. As his approach shows, LGBTQ representation doesn't even have to be about the kid-unfriendly topic of sex, which has never been where queerness begins and ends. What he and the rest of Sesame Workshop did with those characters was a little boost to queer watchers, both kids and adults. Bert and Ernie's presence implicitly told queer people who related to them that they not only weren't alone, but that people like them are happy and thriving.

It would obviously be a kindness to lot of queer people to have Sesame Street or Oz just come out and say that Bert and Ernie are queer. But that's not the only path they could have taken. They could have simply said that they are honoured that queer people have seen themselves in their characters, that they hope that doing so has made a positive impact on their lives. Instead, they chose to invalidate the queer reading. Oz repeated the same interrogative excuses we've seen cisgender, heterosexual people use about the irrelevance of representation that we've heard our whole lives.

It's precisely because of that attitude - precisely because the world remains so inimical to visions of queer intimacy - that so many of us have identified with characters like Bert and Ernie. We're not going to stop. But that doesn't mean the Frank Ozes of the world need to make things harder.

Discover more

Entertainment

Is the world ready for an x-rated Muppets?

23 Aug 08:55 PM
Entertainment

Sesame St writer: Bert and Ernie are a couple

18 Sep 09:00 PM
Entertainment

Sesame Street shuts down speculation over Bert and Ernie's sexual orientation

19 Sep 03:25 AM
Entertainment

Hollywood can save young lives by including more LGBTQ+ characters

28 Sep 05:00 PM
Save

    Share this article

Latest from Entertainment

Premium
Entertainment

TikTok made Addison Rae famous. Pop made her cool

19 Jun 06:00 AM
Entertainment

The five best films for your Matariki weekend watchlist

19 Jun 04:00 AM
Entertainment

Why matchmakers are conflicted about the new rom-com about matchmakers

18 Jun 05:00 PM

Help for those helping hardest-hit

sponsored
Advertisement
Advertise with NZME.

Latest from Entertainment

Premium
TikTok made Addison Rae famous. Pop made her cool

TikTok made Addison Rae famous. Pop made her cool

19 Jun 06:00 AM

NY Times: The onetime social media superstar re-emerged as rookie pop star of the year.

The five best films for your Matariki weekend watchlist

The five best films for your Matariki weekend watchlist

19 Jun 04:00 AM
Why matchmakers are conflicted about the new rom-com about matchmakers

Why matchmakers are conflicted about the new rom-com about matchmakers

18 Jun 05:00 PM
Tom Cruise, Dolly Parton to be awarded honorary Oscars

Tom Cruise, Dolly Parton to be awarded honorary Oscars

18 Jun 07:26 AM
Inside Leigh Hart’s bonkers quest to hand-deliver a SnackaChangi chip to every Kiwi
sponsored

Inside Leigh Hart’s bonkers quest to hand-deliver a SnackaChangi chip to every Kiwi

NZ Herald
  • About NZ Herald
  • Meet the journalists
  • Newsletters
  • Classifieds
  • Help & support
  • Contact us
  • House rules
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms of use
  • Competition terms & conditions
  • Our use of AI
Subscriber Services
  • NZ Herald e-editions
  • Daily puzzles & quizzes
  • Manage your digital subscription
  • Manage your print subscription
  • Subscribe to the NZ Herald newspaper
  • Subscribe to Herald Premium
  • Gift a subscription
  • Subscriber FAQs
  • Subscription terms & conditions
  • Promotions and subscriber benefits
NZME Network
  • The New Zealand Herald
  • The Northland Age
  • The Northern Advocate
  • Waikato Herald
  • Bay of Plenty Times
  • Rotorua Daily Post
  • Hawke's Bay Today
  • Whanganui Chronicle
  • Viva
  • NZ Listener
  • Newstalk ZB
  • BusinessDesk
  • OneRoof
  • Driven Car Guide
  • iHeart Radio
  • Restaurant Hub
NZME
  • About NZME
  • NZME careers
  • Advertise with NZME
  • Digital self-service advertising
  • Book your classified ad
  • Photo sales
  • NZME Events
  • © Copyright 2025 NZME Publishing Limited
TOP