When someone speaks of trade secrets it invokes thoughts of Nasa's computer software for the Apollo 11 mission to the moon ... not allegedly stolen plans from a Kiwi architecture firm, a court has heard.
Sitting in a witness box at the Auckland District Court is Michael Davies, charged with nine counts of stealing trade secrets for a pecuniary advantage.
Today, the 46-year-old who talks with a mixed Kiwi and Essex accent had his chance to defend himself before the jury hearing his trial.
Davies is accused of stealing material from his former employer, Context Architects, as he walked out the door for another firm in early 2017.
It is alleged he stole Context Architects' annual business plan, project files, pricing models which included details of contract negotiations with Housing New Zealand, the firm's ArchiCAD computer drawing template, and project plans for school developments.
Davies also allegedly stole the file for an higher-density residential development in Albany.
Davies' defence counsel Guyon Foley told the jury the files his client took weren't trade secrets.
"Today is the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 ... It was quite a magnificent moment," Foley said, recalling his memory of the first moon landing as a 5-year-old.
"Computer software and hardware used to put Neil Armstrong on the moon ... To my mind that's a trade secret isn't it?"
Foley said over time what a trade secret was may have changed.
"The definition has probably expanded - Kentucky Fried Chicken, Coca Cola," he said.
"Important, confidential, commercially sensitive ... think of the words, trade secret - secret."
When Foley had finished his opening address he called his client to the witness stand, who strode forward through the courtroom from his designated seat behind his lawyer.
The Englishman provided the court with a brief history of his working life, which began as a technician before later becoming an architect and moving to New Zealand in 2003.
After searching for work online, an interview with founding director of Context Architects Lisa Hinton was secured, Davies said.
He was offered and took the job at the firm in Auckland, recalling his new office having a "very social environment".
Hinton has earlier told the court Davies began as a project architect.
"He was a very good architect," she said.
Davies went on to become one of the leaders of the firm when he was appointed a principal architect in July 2016.
However, after being moved into the management role Davies said he began to hold "concerns of the imposter syndrome".
"Concerns that I'm in a position and not performing well ... I was struggling in my role as a leader at Context - just finding my place in the management team," he said.
While recalling the work he did for the firm, however, Davies talked with enthusiasm about large apartment and school refurbishment projects.
While the school work was not a money-spinner he said "there's a bigger reward when kids come up and thank you for some of the small work you do".
But, as he told the court: "I found I was second-guessing myself all the time.
"I did start to question myself a lot, that maybe the management role wasn't my strongest skill set."
In late 2016, Davies said he'd made a decision in his own mind to leave Context Architects.
"I started to consider what other options I had. I think in my mind I would've liked to have worked for myself as a small business."
In December 2016 Davies took a meeting with another smaller firm, Design Partners, and spoke with their leaders again at the end of January 2017, the court heard.
Davies said he was offered the position of managing the company's design practice.
"They suggested I would have the freedom to manage that business and bring in work," he said.
But soon after he walked out the door, Davies was accused of stealing intellectual property.
"As he left he took numerous documents - thousands of documents isn't overstating it," Crown prosecutor Sam McMullan told the jury during his opening address last week.
During a single day Davies downloaded some 1600 files, the court heard.
After discovering the alleged file heist, Context Architects' board advised the company to inform the police.
It led to search warrants on Davies' home and Design Partners in October 2017.
"'Dad the police are at the door'," Davies said, recalling his daughter meeting the officers at his home.
After talking with a detective, Davies said he was taken to the police station.
When interviewed by police the accused architect said: "I downloaded them all for a reason ... I know I wasn't supposed to. I guess where does it go from here?"
However, today Davies explained some of the "out of order" questions and replies.
"I'd just been arrested and taken to a police station, so I was a little out of sorts – worried about my daughter and unable to talk to my wife," he said.
After being charged, the case then went public in October 2017 when the Herald reported the allegations against Davies.
His defence lawyer has accused Context Architects of leaking information about the case to the Herald.
"When you Google his name the first thing that comes up is the Herald article. Someone leaked it," Foley said.
After the case was reported, Context Architects also sent a cease and desist letter to Design Partners to halt any use of the allegedly stolen material, the court has heard.
Hinton earlier said the legal letter was served because it would be "almost impossible to retrieve the files" from their competitors.
"We've never had such a large data theft before," she said.
Foley, however, has queried why Context Architects simply didn't ask Davies or his new firm for its supposed trade secrets back.
"You've got our golden egg, crown jewels ... Did you know your guy Michael Davies has got our good stuff?" Foley said Context Architects might have proposed.
"Why didn't they ask for it back?"
Foley also asked Davies if he had any contact with his old firm or Hinton since he left and the allegations were levelled against his client.
"No one rang you up on their behalf and said give us our stuff back please?" Foley said.
"No," Davies replied.
"Would you have given it back if they had asked?"
"Yes," Davies said.
Some of the material Davies accepts he took was for personal use, professional liability and for his own portfolio of work, he claims.
He said there was not a crooked conspiracy behind taking the files and does not believe those documents even constitute trade secrets.
Foley asked his client why he didn't simply print PDF copies of his work for his portfolio.
"Bet you wish you did?" Foley said.
"Yes," Davies said, ironically smiling.
The trial, with Judge Eddie Paul presiding, is expected to conclude this week.