New York professor Scott Galloway’s verdict on New Zealand’s phones-in-schools ban

A ban on mobile phones in schools kicked in this week. Photo / Getty Images

New York University Stern professor of marketing Scott Galloway practices what he preaches. The prolific podcaster and Algebra of Wealth author has founded a string of tech, branding and education start-ups, which have pushed his estimated wealth to over $100 million. The Herald asked him for his verdict on New Zealand’s mobile phones-in-schools ban.

The ban kicked in this week and covers breaks and class time, as per National’s campaign pledge.

Will it be good for students?

“There are probably some apps and some tech that they won’t be as apt at,” Galloway said.

“But on balance, I think it’s a fantastic idea. New Zealand gets it right again.” (The academic and entrepreneur was also a fan of New Zealand’s move to ban most semi-automatic weapons after the Christchurch Mosque massacres.)

“I’m friends with and colleagues with Jonathan Haidt, who catalysed this global movement. It’s inspiring to think that, in academia, we might occasionally get it right and have an impact,” Galloway added.

Haidt – also a professor at New York University – is a social psychologist and author of a seminal 2019 essay called “Get phones out of schools now” which associated a rise in teen anxiety and depression with the use of mobiles in schools.

“Getting students’ attention was harder because they seemed permanently distracted and congenitally distractible. Drama, conflict, bullying, and scandal played out continually during the school day on platforms to which the staff had no access,” Haidt wrote after talking to teachers and principals.

Many schools wanted bans but feared push-back from helicopter parents.

Galloway said he liked to think his colleague’s work helped to inspire New Zealand’s move.

He added, “It just makes sense. A 13-year-old girl doesn’t need the high school cafeteria following around 24-7. Look at what’s happened to teen depression and suicide. The moment it started escalating it was when social went on mobile.”

Louder playgrounds

AUT lecturer Patrick Usmar, writing for The Conversation, said reaction has ranged from the sceptical (kids will just get sneakier with phones or access social media from laptops) to the optimistic (most kids seem okay with it).

While hard evidence was “weak and inconclusive”, anecdotally, schools that implemented the ban before the deadline have reported positive changes in attention and learning. The head girl of Hornby High School in Christchurch said the grounds were now “almost louder during intervals and lunches”.

Her principal said, “I wish we had done the phone ban five years ago.”

And, responding to a Herald article on LinkedIn, Freeview general manager Leon Mead said, “It’s made a difference at Rangi [Rangitoto College – the biggest school in the country]. Last year fields were empty at lunchtime. Now kids are off phones and out having fun.”

Usmar said while phones could have constructive uses, such as assisting with scheduling, and would not be a silver bullet for cyber bullying and mental health concerns, “the personal device’s capacity to distract remains a legitimate concern”. He saw the greatest potential benefit as reviving students’ curiosity in learning.

‘Unmanageable to police’

There has been a degree of opposition to a Government-mandated ban. Iva Ropati, tumuaki (principal) of Pāpāmoa College, said his school decided last year to ban cellphones during class time after analysing evidence-based data.

The former Warriors rugby league player was critical of the Government overstepping and unnecessarily interfering in board of trustee governance by imposing blanket bans across all schools.

He said the blanket ban was “almost an unmanageable situation” for schools to police, particularly at intervals and break times with unco-operative students.

“Sadly, most of our teaching staff will be at the pointy end of that monitoring, confiscations and the like. That is unnecessary conflict that our staff are being put in, and it’s unfortunate.”

Scott Galloway will make a virtual appearance on May 2 at Future State, a biannual business and technology summit produced in partnership with Spark Business Lab. The Herald will have more from Galloway – including his take on AI, some of his best and worst investment moves, and what he thinks is the worst advice a parent can give – over the weekend.

Chris Keall is an Auckland-based member of the Herald’s business team. He joined the Herald in 2018 and is the technology editor and a senior business writer.