“Tomorrow is International Women’s Day. We have women in national security, we want to celebrate them. Let’s just say they are normally the minority in terms of national security agencies.”
Collins said the pair discussed “Aukus pillar 2 opportunities and getting some more information on what there might or might not be available”.
“We’re just exploring it, talking about various things, obviously geopolitical issues, the challenging times that we’re in,” she said.
“There will be opportunities for us, it’s whether or not we want to take them, [whether] there’s significant New Zealand benefit, but also being part of any arrangement with our good friends and other liberal democracies.”
New Zealand’s nuclear free laws mean it cannot participate in pillar 1 of Aukus which relates to the acquisition of nuclear-powered (though not nuclear-armed) submarines by Australia. However, Kurt Campbell, the Biden administration’s Indo-Pacific czar effectively put joining pillar 2 on the table when he visited New Zealand under the former government.
Pillar 2 involves sharing non-nuclear information and technology. Labour is less keen on New Zealand signing up, with its foreign affairs spokesman David Parker saying the agreement didn’t offer anything New Zealand could not get from other arrangements, such as Five Eyes.
Collins said she had not yet made up her mind on Aukus.
“We’re looking to see. This is very much simply asking someone to a dance rather than actually dancing,” Collins said.
Earlier this year, Collins travelled to Australia where she discussed Aukus with Australian counterparts. Australia sent a team of officials over to New Zealand to brief the Government here on the deal.
Thomas Coughlan is Deputy Political Editor and covers politics from Parliament. He has worked for the Herald since 2021 and has worked in the press gallery since 2018.
