Steve Wyn-Harris and Grant McCallum debated whether it really is a case of "us and them" when it comes to the perceived urban/rural divide on The Country.

Central Hawkes Bay sheep farmer Steve Wyn-Harris reckons the majority of urban people believe farmers are trying to make the environment a better place. He also says television shows such as Country Calendar go a long way to bridging the urban/rural divide.

Obviously waterways are a major issue in the election campaign and Wyn-Harris concedes that he's not surprised that urban folk agree with a water tax if they're not going to be paying it.

Northland cow cocky Grant McCallum says the water quality debate is not a simplistic issue. He disagrees with Wyn-Harris about urban people thinking farmers are environmentally friendly.

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McCallum believes campaigns by Greenpeace and the Green Party have started to resonate with urban voters and he has noticed that his Auckland friends are now asking him when he's going to "clean up the waterways."

Also in this interview: the panel talk about why they think a water tax won't work, discuss whether New Zealand is at peak cow numbers and share their memories of 9/11

Finally Wyn-Harris and McCallum round off the interview by taking a swipe at Farmer J - Jeremy Rookes!

Listen to the full interview in the Soundcloud embed below: