Labour MP Willie Jackson has accused broadcaster Ryan Bridge of “trying to write off all Māori” in a fiery exchange over Te Pāti Māori.
The outburst on Herald NOW was sparked when the show’s host started to address the issue surrounding Toitū Te Tiriti, which led the large hīkoi on Parliament last year. The movement officially cut ties with the political party yesterday.
Jackson and National Minister Louise Upston joined the show as part of a political panel this morning.
Bridge asked Jackson what was going on with Te Pāti Māori.
“But I’m not in Te Pāti Māori, why would you be asking me?” Jackson said.
Bridge suggested Te Pāti Māori leaders Debbie Ngarewa-Packer and Rawiri Waititi don’t have “control of their caucus”, compared with Winston Peters and David Seymour.
“I know you’re trying to write off all the Māori, you’ve been trying to do it for a while now,” Jackson said to Bridge.
With Upston quiet in between the two men, Bridge replied, “Don’t be disgraceful... Actually, Willie stop, that’s offensive, that’s really offensive. Don’t come in here and...”
Jackson told Bridge to taihoa (wait).
“We are having a discussion about politics, you’ve just said that I’m against all Maori,” Bridge said.
Jackson denied saying that and added, “What I’m saying is there is a different standard being applied to Te Pāti Māori in terms of a possible coalition partner.”
Toitū Te Tiriti spokesman Eru Kapa-Kingi had criticised the party’s leadership style, describing it as “a dictatorship model”, highlighting recent controversies.
Former Te Pāti Māori co-leader Te Ururoa Flavell today said Toitū Te Tiriti had made a “fair call” in the decision to move away from the political party.
“The statement that he’s made is that politicians need to stop being activists and activists need to stop being politicians, which I think is a fair call,” Flavell told Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking.
“In that regard, [he’s] trying to separate the movement that he set up, Toitū Te Tiriti, he said that’s their focus around the obligations to the Treaty of Waitangi and keeping those at the forefront of the New Zealand society.”
Kapa-Kingi has said the Toitū Te Tiriti movement wasn’t a political lobby group.
“It needs to be unambiguous that our kaupapa is not a lobby group for any political party,” Kapa-Kingi told Te Ao Māori News.
“Movements like ours, that are outside of Parliament, have to survive through political changes. That’s why there is a need for distance.”
Flavell said that on the face of the news coming out about Te Pāti Māori, there were some internal issues.
“Going off the back of the things that have happened the last couple of weeks, the whole issue with Tākuta Ferris, the removal of Mariameno [Kapa-Kingi] as whip and this sort of statement sort of fuels the fire in a sense that there are a few issues going on.”
Kapa-Kingi’s mother, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, was demoted as party whip last month. Kapa-Kingi has denied that this was behind the decision to cut ties with the party.
Flavell also pointed to the unwillingness of some of the Te Pāti Māori leadership to talk to the media as an issue.
“I mean, there was a wonderful occasion when Oriini Kaipara was voted into the Parliament and yet pretty much told not to speak or wasn’t allowed to speak, or other people took over.
“On the face of it, you’d say there’s a few things going on. How deep and how wide that is, I’m not exactly close enough to be able to give you an informed view,” Flavell said.
Flavell said the Māori population expects a lot from Māori MPs, in particular in the Māori Party.
“They expect them to get some action done, not only through legislation, but in terms of turning around the living conditions that many people suffer at the moment.”
Recently, Labour leader Chris Hipkins said Te Pāti Māori appears to be a “long way away” from being ready for a role in Government.
Flavell said politicians had to maintain relationships with each other even if they are from different sides of the political spectrum.
“I did learn a few things in Parliament, one of them is that you maintain relationships despite differences of view.
“But you got on and you had relationships with people, knowing full well that unless you’re a part of a governing party, you get nothing.
Labour MP Willie Jackson said he was shocked by the developments of the past 24 hours, but all parties went through periods of disagreement.
“Whether it’s Labour, National, whatever - we’ve all gone through them through the years. It was a bit of a shock watching everything unfold in the last 24 hours.
“They’re going to have to traverse that. Let’s be clear though, it is big. The young man [Toitū Te Tiriti spokesman Eru Kapa-Kingi] who came out is a very, very significant leader within the Te Ao Māori movement.
“His mum is a very good MP.”
Te Pāti Māori’s leadership had a big job ahead, but with Kaipara coming in that would likely be their focus, Jackson said.
“We’re going to Parliament next week. Big week for her, big week for her community. I would have thought that’ll be the priority.”
Jaime Lyth is a multimedia journalist for the New Zealand Herald, focusing on crime and breaking news. Lyth began working under the NZ Herald masthead in 2021 as a reporter for the Northern Advocate in Whangārei.