National’s Christopher Luxon and his MPs have returned to Parliament to a whirlwind of questions about the handling of the Andrew Bayly saga and the leader’s communication style.
Bayly resigned as a minister last Monday after engaging in “overbearing” behaviour towards a staff member, including placing his hand on their upper arm, something he acknowledged was “inappropriate”.
In an interview the next morning with Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking, Luxon was repeatedly asked whether he would have sacked Bayly had the minister not resigned. He avoided clearly answering the question until finally saying he would have. Amid criticism, he admitted a day later that he doesn’t get his communication “right all the time”.
Facing media ahead of National’s caucus meeting on Tuesday morning, Luxon said MPs hadn’t raised any concerns with him about his communication ability.
“That’s not a conversation we’ve had with our caucus at all,” the National leader said.
He again acknowledged he could sometimes do better.
“I could have communicated it much better. Yes, I can always do a better job engaging through and with media. But at the end of the day, Andrew came to a pretty tough and significant decision on his own right. I didn’t want to pile on.”
Luxon couldn’t specify what exactly Bayly had done that would have required him to sack the minister, had he not chosen to resign. He said Bayly had explained what had happened.
“[He] didn’t meet my expectations as a minister, and he was well understood about that and more importantly, didn’t meet his own expectations,” the Prime Minister said.
Despite not being able to clearly identify what made the behaviour worthy of being sacked, Luxon said ministers were “crystal clear” about what was a sackable offence.
He said he continued to have the backing of his caucus.
“I’m waking up every day focused on the New Zealand people and at the moment they want us to deal with the cost of living crisis and that’s what we’re doing... we’re working hard to make sure we’re delivering for the New Zealand people.”
National has been struggling in recent public polls, down on where it was at the 2023 election. The current governing bloc – National, Act and New Zealand First – were behind the left bloc – Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori – in two major polls released in February.
Nicola Willis, National’s deputy and the Finance Minister, said politicians don’t always get their communication correct, but she had learnt it was important to be blunt and get to the point.
“With political communication, we all get it wrong sometimes or I say something and a journalist doesn’t interpret it the way I would have wanted it interpreted.”
She believed Luxon was the right person to lead the country and was hitting the mark.
“We are a country that is faced with significant economic and cost of living challenges and he is leading a government that is addressing that.”
Judith Collins, the Defence Minister who served in the previous National Government cabinets and was also leader prior to Luxon, said she had full confidence in him.
Asked whether she was clear what a sackable offence was, Collins said: “I’m not in charge of Cabinet.
“It is whatever the Prime Minister decides it is. That’s the way it works in every Cabinet I have been part of.
“It is very important that everyone understands the Prime Minister has got a tough job, he has got to be very strong in it, and I support him.”
Senior minister Paul Goldsmith agreed.
“What makes a sackable offence is something the Prime Minister regards as a sackable offence. It’s obviously for the Prime Minister to deal with in any circumstances in a particular situation.
“I think we all understand that we’re always under particular public scrutiny and we’ve got to conduct ourselves in a very careful way and so I think everybody in their own mind has a sense of what would fall into that category.”
MPs also faced questions about whether they were being shown National’s internal polling. Many said they were, but wouldn’t share the last time that was, citing caucus confidentiality.
“We do see internal polling, we don’t do polling all the time. Certainly, we do internal polling and the caucus sees it,” said senior minister Chris Bishop.
Ōtaki MP Tim Costley said he couldn’t remember when he last saw internal polling, “but we wouldn’t talk about anything that happens in caucus anyway, would we?”
He said there were only positive things to say about Luxon’s communication style and reckoned he was the right person to lead National.
“He has got us focused as a team and delivering on the things that matter to Kiwis. If you look at what the average mortgage is doing right now, that is providing real relief to Kiwis.”
Bay of Plenty MP Tom Rutherford said: “Yea, we have regular polling. I can’t disclose what happens at caucus. We get regular internal polling shared as a caucus.”
Labour leader Chris Hipkins wouldn’t share exactly what his party’s internal polling was but said it had the party above 30% and he was “encouraged” by it. He said he shared it with his caucus.
Jamie Ensor is a political reporter in the NZ Herald Press Gallery team based at Parliament. He was previously a TV reporter and digital producer in the Newshub Press Gallery office.