He is also charged with obstructing police and failing to carry out obligations in relation to a computer search.
On Wednesday, Ramsay pleaded guilty to five charges of possession of an objectionable publication.
In her opening address on Monday, Crown prosecutor Anna McConachy said still images found on one laptop ranged from category one (child nudity or erotic posing) to category five, depicting sadism or bestiality.
On Thursday, Ramsay’s lawyer, John Wayne Howell, asked why Ramsay had objectionable images.
Ramsay said he did not view them as “objectionable”.
“Yes, distasteful, disgusting, but I think as an academic and a researcher, everything should be open for review and criticism.”
He said he was looking at developing an “AI search engine” for the benefit of “law enforcement”.
Ramsay said he had not spoken to law enforcement about it because it was in the “development stage”.
Howell asked if he had the images for sexual gratification purposes.
Ramsay said no, because it was for “research”.
Sex toys the ‘safer’ option
Ramsay said the boy had instigated conversations with him about sex and bestiality.
He said he briefly gave the boy oral sex for about one minute after he asked for it, and supplied him with sex toys as a “safer option” to the way the boy was masturbating.
He did not view the oral sex as sexual: “I was fully clothed ... ”
Howell asked if Ramsay had health issues at the time of the alleged offending.
Ramsay said he had, among other issues, erectile dysfunction.
Man claims showing videos an ‘educative experiential learning process’
Howell asked Ramsay if he had shown the girl pornography, to which Ramsay responded, “not in the way the law describes”.
Ramsay said he showed her videos of “animation of internal functions” and “simulated sex”.
He claimed it was after they had seen dogs having sex, and the girl asked him what they were doing.
Ramsay said he went on YouTube “and found some animated videos that showed the process”.
Howell asked why Ramsay explained what the dogs were doing.
Ramsay said he had an education background and it was an “educative experiential learning process”.
He said it had “absolutely zero” sexual element to it.
He denied having a sexual interest in the two children.
Ramsay tries to ‘victim-blame’ children - Crown
McConachy said there was a “significant” age gap between Ramsay and the children, and Ramsay had been trying to “victim-blame” them for what he did.
She said it was “a load of rubbish” that Ramsay was collecting images for “research” and asked why he had not run it past law enforcement.
“Third-party disclosure risks losing patent ability,” he said.
Ramsay said images of people having sex with dogs being found on his computer, and the boy alleging Ramsay tried to make him have sex with a dog, were a coincidence.
McConachy played a recording from a microcassette found in Ramsay’s belongings.
The court heard a man saying, “I don’t know that sex really hurts children ... if it is that detrimental to children.”
Ramsay disagreed that it was him talking, and he disagreed with what was said.
“I think AI has produced this.”
McConachy questioned why sex toys were found during a police search when Ramsay claimed he was impotent.
She suggested impotency was “just some excuse ... to talk away these allegations”.
Ramsay said he had “never” used the sex toys, and he bought them for the children “to answer their questions”.
She asked if he intended to provide medical documentation to prove he had erectile dysfunction.
He said he understood Health NZ had been asked for proof, but claimed the government agency had not supplied it.
McConachy said it was “completely untrue” that the boy had instigated oral sex with Ramsay, and it was a product of Ramsay’s grooming him.
Ramsay denied this.
The Crown and defence were expected to deliver their closing arguments today.
Sexual harm
Where to get help:
If it’s an emergency and you feel that you or someone else is at risk, call 111.
If you’ve ever experienced sexual assault or abuse and need to talk to someone, contact Safe to Talk confidentially, any time 24/7:
- Call 0800 044 334
- Text 4334
- Email support@safetotalk.nz
- For more info or to web chat visit safetotalk.nz
Alternatively, contact your local police station – click here for a list.
If you have been sexually assaulted, remember it’s not your fault.
Megan Wilson is a health and general news reporter for the Bay of Plenty Times and the Rotorua Daily Post. She has been a journalist since 2021.
