Margaret Murray-Benge (left) and Buddy Mikaere went head to head on the topic of Māori representation at a governance level. Photo montage / File
Margaret Murray-Benge (left) and Buddy Mikaere went head to head on the topic of Māori representation at a governance level. Photo montage / File
"The saddest 20 minutes of my life."
That was Māori historian and former Waitangi Tribunal director Buddy Mikaere's opinion of his opponent's comments on the history of Aotearoa during a debate in Tauranga this week.
Mikaere debated Western Bay of Plenty District councillor Margaret Murray-Benge on Tuesday night on thesubject of Māori representation in governance.
Hosted by Greerton Lions, the event aimed to generate discussion and raise money for the local community, said Lions member and MC Terry Molloy.
Both parties were given 10 minutes to make their point, and 10 minutes for rebuttal before taking questions from the floor.
Mikaere took the microphone first after Murray-Benge won the coin toss. He broached the topic of Māori wards.
A binding public referendum overturned the Western Bay council's decision to add a Māori ward in 2018.
Tauranga City Council voted 6-4 last year to establish a Māori ward before the next election. A community petition threatened to see that decision put to a binding referendum, but this was cancelled after the Government removed that challenge method from law.
"Two things I want to say about that," Mikaere said. "The decision to establish the Māori ward was made by a council democratically elected to represent the city, therefore their decision has to be a majority decision.
"What if the council decision had gone the other way - would we have had a petition circulating the community because there hadn't been appropriate community consultation? I think probably not."
Buddy Mikaere, Margaret Murray-Benge and Terry Malloy at the Lions debate on Maori representation on council. Photo / Leah Tebbutt
Mikaere said representation at the council table, versus via consultation groups, was fundamental to sound decision-making due to the lived experiences of the community the represenative would stand for.
"As much as our councillors would like to represent Māori views, they are not able to do that because they have not lived their experience.
"Everything I am already saying is a dead argument - the Government has made that decision."
Murray-Benge opened by saying the conversation was needed for the sake of future generations.
"If we don't get it right it will determine whether our grandchildren will live in peace and harmony or whether we degenerate into a fractured society, filled with anger and resentment."
She argued politicians and "Māori radicals" were trying to destroy democracy by allowing Māori wards.
"In a democracy, there is a risk if one stands for election one might lose, but that is a democracy, and there is no way our society will survive if we turn our backs on the fundamental principle and do what radical Māori want."
She turned to the Treaty of Waitangi and her views of the time leading up to the signing of Aotearoa's founding document.
Murray-Benge claimed prostitution was rife in Russell and Māori, alongside missionaries, quickly needed muskets to defend themselves from what the world viewed as the "hell hole of the South Pacific".
In her opinion, without Christian missionaries, Māori of the time would have "wiped each other out" due to tribal conflicts.
Mikaere said, expressing his opinion, that his history degree was apparently a waste since what he learned did not line up with Murrary-Benge's account.
Mikaere said, in his view: "Probably the saddest 20 minutes of my life and I'm never getting that back."
Questions from the audience covered what ideas Murray-Benge had for Māori to have a voice on the governance level, to which she responded, "vote for them".
She was asked if rural wards should also be abolished.
She responded with her advice for Tauranga to abolish its "at large" councillor positions and replace them with smaller wards, creating a "greater chance" for people to be elected.
Larry Baldock, a Tauranga City councillor - a title he keeps despite elected members being replaced with a Commission - put to Murray-Benge that the Crown and tangata whenua relationship was like a marriage.
"Would you be satisfied as a woman, married to a man who you only got to speak at the table via a subcommittee, with other people representing you?"
"You have fought for what you believe [women in politics], can't you see that Māori are simply seeking to be a voice in that marriage arrangement the Treaty was envisaging for New Zealanders?"
Murray-Benge said she believed the Treaty had served the population well.
"I don't see the Treaty as a marriage, I see it as a great agreement between two peoples, giving them equal rights, and I think it has served our society well, just don't stuff it up for us."
