If there was ever a case for living in the provinces it's that line in the Auckland Super City ledger that says it's close to $8 billion in debt.
Oh, and that one in the forecast, which says it'll go over $11b, about 20 times that of Wellington.
Hawke's Bay debt is merely a drop in the bucket by comparison.
As nationwide councils umbrella Local Government New Zealand says, there is nothing like the issue of debt to create interest in local government.
The real question, LGNZ says, is not whether councils should have debt or not, but what should debt be used for and when should it be considered too high?
The issue is raised locally again with the costings for redevelopment of the oval at McLean Park in Napier, a city which has carried minimal debt, thanks largely to the success of its investment portfolio, including the oft-debated leasehold lands.
The cost of the stadium work is put at $4.9 million, which does inspire a gulp or two, and, some might say, could be partly offset by selling tickets to the event — starting next week and including hundreds of truckloads moving in and out with the replacement of turf and base to a depth of almost half a metre and the laying of a new surface as if it were a roll of carpet.
But the reality is McLean Park is already an investment, and must be maintained at a level which keeps pace with the rest of the world.
It's easily worth the price of the ticket, even if it is, gulp, almost $5m.